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  1. #1
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    Foil: White Light, White Light!

    Instead of asking a Sock, jacket, or jock strap question, I wanted to review what causes a foil white light!

    Foil problems,,,why oh why does this have to happen to me???

    Unlike the epee, the foil is a less mechanical weapon, yet can have a ton of more problems with it.

    Let’s talk white lights! Yep, this is the topic of this thread.

    OK, let’s figure out what causes this.
    There are only 13 to 14 main items that can cause this and in this thread, if I don't mention your idea, please jump in and add it to this thread!

    First off, what causes a white light?
    In laymen’s terms: it’s any interruption of the B-C short from the tip to the grip.

    I call it “Starting at the tip and working my way down”

    Understand all that? Most will. Moving on!

    White Light Details:

    1. Most common effect of a white light is in the tip! Foil springs can bounce around in a barrel like an old girlfriend. Anytime you have a lost connection of the spring to the contact plate of the wire or bottom plate to the tip, you have an interruption in the “B” line. White light! Time to change out the spring.
    2. Again in the tip! Junk, debris, crud and so on. Anything on the bottom side of the collar to the tip (either French or German) can interrupt the connection and guess what, yep, white light.
    3. Once again, in the tip! For all you perry tip fencer’s, here is the answer. For those that like to perry with the tip, you get collateral damage in the form of dented barrels (looks like a car wreck magnified). When you dent a barrel at the collar of a foil, you can cause the collar of the tip to lock up (interruption of the “B” line once again) and you guessed it, white light.
    4. Forth is my favorite: Loose barrel. “I don’t know why, but when I go for an attack, I keep getting a white light”. Anytime you have a loose barrel, your “C” line are interrupted and here we go, White Light.
    5. Here is an easy one: Missing screws in the tip; any questions? Nope, didn’t think so. Just because you tape the barrel, this does not mean it will hold in the tip.
    6. Its all in the wire. The most common problem with a wire is oddly enough in the barrel. On every wire there is a brass/tin contact that is soldered/crimped or magically fused to the wire. With the pulling/hitting and fencers that do not know they have loose barrels, the wire comes loose from the contact. This more commonly is called “A Ghost” white light. Why??? When the blade is in its normal straight form, the wire is touching the contact. When the blade is bent or stretched, guess what happens? Yep, the wire is no longer making contact with the contact and here we go; “White Light”. You now have a break in the “B” line.
    7. Still in the wire. This one is much easier to diagnose. Anytime you have an exposed wire (non-insulated, shinny copper) touching the blade, you now have a continuous “B-C” short. This will give you a dead weapon, pray over it but its not coming back to life. You can beat on it, kick it or toss it on the ground, yet, its still dead.
    8. Break up in the wire: This is another “Ghost White Light” that’s fun to figure out. Your blade works fine until you bend it. Blade straight, ok, Blade bent, white light. OK,,, you most likely have a break in the wire somewhere in the blade and the wire while straight is touching the two ends (making contact). When bent, yep, you figured it out, you have a break in the wire and that “B” line and those funky white lights shows up.
    9. Wire and guard: if you assemble your own weapons, and do not check where the wire is when you assemble the grip, you can and most beginners do crush the wire between the grip and foil guard. You now have a continuous “B-C” short or a break in the "B-C" short. It’s a dead weapon. Not happening. At this time you scratch your head and other body parts and think, what’s wrong or what did I do wrong?
    10. The 2 prong connector: If you have a 2 prong connector, and the insulator on the “B” line (that’s the smaller hole) is a dark blue, and the stamp on it shows the letters “BG” on it, you have a problem. The hole size on this model is not 3.0. It’s more like 3.4. Your body cord “B” line (the smaller post/pin) wallows around inside of this thing non-stop which gives you a ghost interruption. The ref comes over, looks at your weapon and says “nothing is wrong with it”. NOT TRUE! Replace it quickly.
    11. Any connector: either 2 prong, bayonet or any other form, when the wire comes loose from it, you get a white light. You would not believe how many foils I get to repair and they (fencers) tell me, “It needs to be rewired” and I look down at the connector and the wire is broke loose and all I can say is,,,OK!
    12. Almost done with the connector; either the “B” or “C” socket has to be tight! If you have either one of them loose, here we go; White Light!
    13. Griper: Loose grips are killer! Well, not really but, if you have a loose grip, this means you have a loose socket which means that that there is a possible break in the “C” line which will give you a,,,you guessed it, a White Light!
    14. Last but not least: BODY CORDS, BODY CORDS, BODY CORDS! I am going to save this for another time/post/thread. There are way too many things to list on this thread. Know this; 80% of all white lights on strip are caused by BODY CORDS. Here is my (2) cents on this matter. If you want less white lights, buy better body cords. If you ever wanted to have a extreme horror story on stip, buy that really cheap $14 body cord made by who knows where and you will see what I mean. It ain't pretty! It’s my opinion that any adult fencer that scrimps on their body cords, should be beat with them while on strip by the ref when they go bad, which will be often! :-)

    I know there are more reasons out there for an foil to white light, and stories to be told, have fun with it and put down your ideas/stories in this thread. Maybe someone will read it and learn something. Most likely not!

    Gary Spruill
    Last edited by twisterfencing; 05-06-2009 at 03:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Posting Hound Array Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Uhhh...Gary? #7....a bare wire shorting to the blade wouldn't result in a white light....it would result in a circuit that would NOT break...no light at all.

    But here's another tip issue or 2 for you...

    The flange on the bottom of the tip loosening...rattling around breaking the circuit.

    Corrosion on either side of the spring blocking the circuit.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  3. #3
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    Thanks Sam,

    Its late here and brain is not working as it should. I made the corrections - Thanks.

    What I'm trying to do is give out some basic information that might help fencers with the weapons that is outside of the "which jacket is best" type of normal format.

    Can only hope it helps.

    Later,

    Gary Spruill

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Fencer View Post
    Uhhh...Gary? #7....a bare wire shorting to the blade wouldn't result in a white light....it would result in a circuit that would NOT break...no light at all.

    But here's another tip issue or 2 for you...

    The flange on the bottom of the tip loosening...rattling around breaking the circuit.

    Corrosion on either side of the spring blocking the circuit.
    Last edited by twisterfencing; 05-06-2009 at 11:26 AM.

  4. #4
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    Good post. Will be doing a rewire tonight as:

    Foil was white-lighting. Cleaned the tip, changed the spring and tightened the barrel, yes.

    On the piste, suited and booted waiting for opponent. Plugs foil in for no white light, hurrah!

    Test on opponent, nothing. Test foot, nothing. Test floor, nothing.

    Twist barrel, foil works, hurrah!

    Foil starts white-lighting. Twist barrel back the other way, hurrah!

    Hit arrived but did not cause a light to come on. Test, nothing. Twist barrel back the other way, get the white light, then twist back a tiny bit.

    Rewire.

  5. #5
    Posting Hound Array Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    It's early here, but it sounds like you had a bit of stripped wire up in the barrel and it was grounding to the blade....sadly, pretty common.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  6. #6
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    Thanks AmamH,

    I have to agree with Sam, sounds like a exposed wire touching the blade somewhere.

    Your doing the right thing. Time to rewire!

    While your doing it, go ahead and put a new tip complete on it. I have found the cost of a new tip is very little when it comes to either you winning a DE or packing up and going home.

    Gary Spruill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamH View Post
    Good post. Will be doing a rewire tonight as:

    Foil was white-lighting. Cleaned the tip, changed the spring and tightened the barrel, yes.

    On the piste, suited and booted waiting for opponent. Plugs foil in for no white light, hurrah!

    Test on opponent, nothing. Test foot, nothing. Test floor, nothing.

    Twist barrel, foil works, hurrah!

    Foil starts white-lighting. Twist barrel back the other way, hurrah!

    Hit arrived but did not cause a light to come on. Test, nothing. Twist barrel back the other way, get the white light, then twist back a tiny bit.

    Rewire.

  7. #7
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    No one else has anything to add to this before it goes to page two?

    Gary Spruill

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Wetmelon's Avatar
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    Hitting off target usually makes the white light come on
    In Flanders fields the poppies grow - Between the crosses, row on row, - That mark our place, and in the sky, - The larks, still bravely singing, fly, - Scarce heard amid the guns below. ~John McCrae

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