Usacfc 2010

[College Fencer]

Welcome to the Wide Wide World of Fun

Mike and all,

I'm a little confused as to who is supposed to call for votes, and
whether doing them over this email is appropriate at all for the
USACFC.

It makes sense to me that a motion to vote AT A MEETING can be
initiated by any member at the meeting. Over email, this gets to be
more chaotic due to the nature of the medium and the time lags
inherent in indirect, distributed communication. By my recollection,
Mike's call for a vote is actually the THIRD call for a vote on the
matter of rescheduling/relocating the 2010 USACFC championships.
Which one has precedence?

If the call for votes can be initiated only by the president of the
USACFC (or an officer), then Mike's call for a vote would, actually,
be out of order.

Bruce's original call for a vote stated:

PLEASE VOTE ON THE FOLLOWING -
As of now the date for the USACFC at Swarthmore is 4/3 and 4/4 2010.
Please reconfirm your team's intent to participate.
This request is, unfortunately, not really a voting matter. It is a
request for information, asking for confirmation of each
institution's intent to participate in the 2010 event. Wayne
McCullough correctly pointed out that the matter being put to vote
was ambiguous in his response to Bruce's original message. Wayne's
response was sent 39 minutes after Bruce's original message:
I'm sorry ... what EXACTLY are we being asked to vote on?

Are we voting to keep it on the weekend of 4/3,4/4 (YES) or to move
it to an adjacent weekend (NO)? Or are we being asked to vote that
the school will not, in fact, prohibit us from traveling that weekend
(YES) vs we will be prohibited (NO)? Or perhaps you are asking to
tell you that the majority of the team may travel that weekend (YES)
vs they can not (NO)? Or maybe you are asking if a given school
intends to participate, despite holidays (YES) vs, we can't because
too many of our fencers will pull out? (NO)
Later in his original message, Bruce encourages us to "Debate and
discuss amongst yourselves or others."

This forum has seen a reasonable share of discussion. My summary of
the discussion thus far:
* Swarthmore is trying to make accommodations that are a reasonable
compromise, working under the assumption the date and location of the
event remains unchanged.

* Swarthmore is rather frustrated at what appears to them a late call
for change. In their eyes, this is, as Mike writes below, already
"*too late to make [any] changes."* *

Most that have responded in this public forum have indicated that
while they will likely attend, regardless of the date, but would
prefer moving the date to the following weekend.

While Bruce seems to be seeking opinions of all the members, I do not
see any written notice indicating WHO will actually be making the
decisions regarding whether to change the date of the 2010 event,
and, in the case of a date change, where to move the event to.

This is, like so many things in this organization, a new situation
for us. The last time we had to move venues, there was no formal bid
process created (I believe). This time, there IS a bid process in
place, but it's still new. Discussions on the issues of how to
integrate the current issue with the existing bids have not, to my
knowledge, happened in a public forum.

One last thought: In Bruce's original message, which asked for the
vote (request for confirmation of intent to participate in 2010), he
wrote:

The membership will be informed of results on THU or FRI of next week.
The date of Bruce's message is Sat 4/11/2009. That would make THU or
FRI of next week either Thu 4/16/2009 or Fri 4/17/2009. Given this
statement, it is reasonable for us all to expect to have received
some communication by now (I am writing this on Sun 4/19/2009).

Thank you.

-Taro Yama****a

I don't mean to crowd inboxes, but I'm also interested to know how the vote is out of
order.

The University of Michigan supports the date change to April 10th and 11th 2010. It does
come uncomfortably close to our finals dates but we understand and can manage.

- Mario Romero

How so Dan? Why is this vote out of order?

Also, a decision has been made you say...? I don't recall a vote on
such a decision.

Finally, this decision will be "disseminated to the membership in due course.." Are you kidding? We have a year to figure out when we're going to fence. Let's hash this out now and not wait until it's too late to make nay changes.

Mike

Ladies & Gentlemen,

Without getting into any details at this instant, a decision has been made and it will be disseminated to the membership in due course. This vote is highly out of order and has no place here.

Daniel Lascar

So, have we decided on the 2010 USACFC weekend?

If not, I'll call for a vote on the following motion:

That the 2010 USACFC National Championship be held at Swarthmore College on Saturday April 10, 2010 and Sunday April 11, 2010.

That we move the tournament to the 10th and 11th is Wisconsin's strong preference. For us, the issues are spending Easter weekend (a long weekend) with family, the increased hassle and cost of travel over a holiday weekend, the inconvenience of trying to pry 40+ directors away from their families over an entire holiday weekend and the incomprehensible (at least to me) plans for wedging religious services and sensitivities into a fencing tournament. Please cast your votes and remember to Reply to All, so that everyone including officers, can see your vote.

Mike

[College Fencer]

Well I Guess an Enforcer Stepped in, To Much Democracy

Well said Taro,
I was confused as well. I looked at Bruce's e-mail closer and saw his call for a vote, albeit a muddied and confusing one. I didn't mean to add to the confusion.

However, I still don't know when the 2010 tournament will be held. Marshal tells me that a message will be coming from the officers very soon, and that's good enough for me.

As for calling for votes and bringing up issue, I think it's crazy to delay such things until the frantic 30 minute excuse for a meeting we hold on the first Sunday in April. E-mail is fraught with issues, but it's just one way to vote. We could use the Google or Yahoo group. We could schedule a conference call. There are alternatives.

So, to Taro, Dan, the officers and the membership, please forgive me. I was confused by the language in Bruce's e-mail and wanted some clear language on the subject. I'll shut up now and wait for the officer's note.

Mike

[Wafath]

Well I Guess an Enforcer Stepped in, To Much Democracy

You: "This is MADNESS!"

Enforcer: "No ... This! Is! USACFC!"

you kicked into the pit, screaming, etc. People who have been with the org for a while roll their eyes and recognize this as the status quo.

(too bad USACFC doesn't roll off the tongue)

W

[Sinestra]

As I'm sure everyone has been waiting with bated breath, I thought I'd mention here that an email was just sent informing us that the date has been changed--the event will now be the weekend of April 10-11, but it will still be at Swarthmore.