Buy another ticket

[I_luv_saber]

Though this is hardly the first airline to do so, I'm curious about the opinion on this CNN news article. Thoughts?

[kmwong]

I'm in favor of this policy. I should not have to endure an uncomfortable plane ride sitting next to someone who is half sitting on me since they don't fit in the seat. They should either buy a 2nd seat, or upgrade to 1st class. While it is embarrassing for the obese passenger, they must realize that trying to shove themselves into a row of 3 in economy class is just not going to work.

[I_luv_saber]

I'm in favor of this policy. I should not have to endure an uncomfortable plane ride sitting next to someone who is half sitting on me since they don't fit in the seat. They should either buy a 2nd seat, or upgrade to 1st class. While it is embarrassing for the obese passenger, they must realize that trying to shove themselves into a row of 3 in economy class is just not going to work.

Even if the obese person is not obese by their own choice? Joking aside, there seriously are people out there with thyroid problems and other medical issues that make them obese beyond any choice. How are these people supposed to travel? It's expensive enough for the average American to travel as it is.

I certainly see the airliner's point of view, but this seems like blatant discrimination to me.

And while I think that you should not be subjected to share a seat with such an obese person, I think it's the airline's responsibility to ensure this does not happen.

I don't know, I just see a ton (no pun intended) of holes in this logic, as well as some hypocrisy.

[erooMynohtnA]

Why should a seven foot tall man have to pay extra to get custom socks? He did not choose to be tall.

Why should a sick person have to pay for medicine when a healthy person does not? They did not choose to be sick.

Why should a stupid person make less money than an intelligent person? They did not choose to be stupid.

Arguments aginst this policy sound pretty socialist to me.

[kmwong]

And while I think that you should not be subjected to share a seat with such an obese person, I think it's the airline's responsibility to ensure this does not happen.

How would they do this? By making you send in your waist/hip size along with height/weight along with your travel reservation? I do suppose that would work, and then they could make sure to fill every seat on the plane before filling the seat next to them. I don't know. While it may not be their choice that they're obese, the fact of the matter is that they are (and yes, I do know someone who is very obese because of thyroid cancer AND his sedentary lifestyle/overeating, though we've never talked about how he travels on airplanes before). I am not saying that they deserve to buy an extra seat because they are obese...I am saying that if their body takes up two seats, their body takes up two seats.

And it's a completely legal policy, which has been around for YEARS (first heard of it in 2002 when Southwest implemented the policy). What about people who need oxygen? They have to pay between $50-$150 extra to get the provided oxygen they need since they can't bring their own on board. And it's not their fault that they need oxygen. Yet they are subjected to these fees. How different is obesity? Not really much at all. You could argue it's a disability that needs special accommodations, and on airplanes, you pay a fee for special accommodations. Besides, you can argue that obese passengers could have "thyroid problems", but is a very very small percentage of the population, and studies have shown anyhow, that you aren't going to put on 100 pounds because of a thyroid problem alone. Many Americans are obese because of their own lifestyle.

Arguments aginst this policy sound pretty socialist to me.

Describe exactly how you got to socialism from this?

[erooMynohtnA]

Despite that being what I thought was an obvious jab at the misuse of the term socialism to describe anything liberal, part of the description of socialism is "a society characterized by economic equality for all individuals." Need I go further?

[Dev]

Actually, that's what the kicker is in this situation. It's economic inequality. Space aboard a commercial airliner is a resource, and as anyone who has flown economy class can tell you, it is a scarce one at that.

An obese passenger is paying the same amount of money to consume more than their share of the resource. Charging them extra is less discrimination than it is corrective action. The cause of the obesity is irrelevant, and as erooMynohtnA mentioned, other people in unequal situations have to pay additionally for their own economic correctives.

[telkanuru]

I just found this.

[thetortfeasor]

I'm in favor of this policy. I should not have to endure an uncomfortable plane ride sitting next to someone who is half sitting on me since they don't fit in the seat. They should either buy a 2nd seat, or upgrade to 1st class. While it is embarrassing for the obese passenger, they must realize that trying to shove themselves into a row of 3 in economy class is just not going to work.

I agree. It's completely unfair and uncomfortable to have an obese person sitting next to me and hanging over into my seat - especially when their flab is touching me. I paid for my seat so that I could sit in it... not so I could share a portion of it with another person.

[kmwong]

Despite that being what I thought was an obvious jab at the misuse of the term socialism to describe anything liberal, part of the description of socialism is "a society characterized by economic equality for all individuals." Need I go further?

I know what socialism is. . .you aren't being clear at all to me. Sorry if I'm being an airhead, I just don't know how you're connecting political affiliation with people's opinions on obese airline passengers.

Your original comment seemed to be against the policy. Are you a socialist, then? If so, why does it matter?

[I_luv_saber]

How would they do this? By making you send in your waist/hip size along with height/weight along with your travel reservation?

I was thinking more along the lines of providing a few seats that are a bit larger.

But I'm curious as to where this line is drawn? What if they start making their seats super-model sized, so even an average person can't fit in them? Is it still right to make an average person pay for 2 seats? Also, if the argument is not that they are too heavy, but cannot fit in the seat, shouldn't that mean I can bring along on the plane whatever I want with me as long as I can fit it into the seat area? Why does it matter whether that weight is part of my body or not? Or are you saying they should be charging simply overweight passengers as well (simply in terms of pounds, not space)?

I do suppose that would work, and then they could make sure to fill every seat on the plane before filling the seat next to them. I don't know. While it may not be their choice that they're obese, the fact of the matter is that they are (and yes, I do know someone who is very obese because of thyroid cancer AND his sedentary lifestyle/overeating, though we've never talked about how he travels on airplanes before). I am not saying that they deserve to buy an extra seat because they are obese...I am saying that if their body takes up two seats, their body takes up two seats.

Again, it's all relative. The seats are too small to fit them because they are made rather small to begin with.

The conclusion to this logic is to start charging everyone based on a formula of how much weight they are carrying, both on and off of their body, as well as how much space they are taking up.

And it's a completely legal policy, which has been around for YEARS (first heard of it in 2002 when Southwest implemented the policy).

I realize it's nothing new, as I stated in my OP, simply using this recent article as a means for discussion.

What about people who need oxygen? They have to pay between $50-$150 extra to get the provided oxygen they need since they can't bring their own on board. And it's not their fault that they need oxygen. Yet they are subjected to these fees. How different is obesity?

I suppose it's not that much different, but I don't exactly think that that is right either. Truthfully, I'm surprised they haven't been gone after for discrimination yet. Again, I see this from the airline's point of view, but I also see this as a discriminatory policy.

Besides, you can argue that obese passengers could have "thyroid problems", but is a very very small percentage of the population, and studies have shown anyhow, that you aren't going to put on 100 pounds because of a thyroid problem alone. Many Americans are obese because of their own lifestyle.

And indeed, I believe this is the root of the problem. When obesity is being talked about, what I keep hearing from most people is "Well they're just choosing to be fat" and resentment because of that. There's also the lovely "Ew" factor you can hear in it as well. This is simply another situation I've noticed in which there is discrimination of obese people (I find it oh so funny that they like to call obesity a disease, yet it gets nearly no recognition whatsoever for the discrimination suffered).

At least around here, if you're making jokes or teasing someone because of their race, religion, or sexual orientation, you are crucified for the political incorrectness. Yet, it's perfectly okay to make fun of someone because they are fat, or to crack fat jokes?

If this was an isolated situation, I might just say "okay, no big deal", but it certainly is not. If people want obesity treated seriously and treat it like a disease, it should be treated as such in other respects as well.

$.02

[Philistine]

Again, I see this from the airline's point of view, but I also see this as a discriminatory policy.{snip}

But there's nothing wrong with "discrimination" unless its done on the basis of something that's protected--here, presumably, it would be disability.

Airlines aren't actually covered by the ADA, there's a special statute covering them the Air Carrier Access Act.

Generally, what's required in disability discrimination statutes is a "reasonable accommodation." From a quick glance, it looks like the issue is specifically dealt with in, the regulations implementing the ACAA on Seating accommodation, 14 CFR Sec. 382.38(i) "Carriers are not required to furnish more than one seat per ticket or to provide a seat in a class of service other than the one the passenger has purchased."

--Philistine

[I_luv_saber]

It seems as though that this:

1) For a passenger who uses an aisle
chair to access the aircraft and who
cannot readily transfer over a fixed
aisle armrest, the carrier shall provide
a seat in a row with a movable aisle
armrest.

Should apply, wouldn't you think? I would think this would be extremely helpful to the problem.

Also:

(h) In no case shall any individual be
denied transportation on a flight in
order to provide accommodations required
by this section.

So, regardless, would the fact they are denying them transportation and making them hop the next plane, without proper notice, be a violation (providing you are considering obesity a disability)?

I've yet to read it through thoroughly, so it's possible I'm missing something here...

[lindajdunn]

I've been seated next to people who used their seat and part of mine too many times. I do not like being pushed against the window by a fellow passenger who exceeds the width of the seat. It's uncomfortable for all of us and it can also lead to medical problems

I think that those who cannot fit into the economy seats should buy two seats so we'll all be comfortable (or a business class/first class seat, which is wider). The airline is selling space and while that designated space is smaller than many of us, it's X amount for Y space. If we need more than Y space, then maybe we should buy Y times 2. Alternately, perhaps some vendor at the airport could lease seat partitions that allow us to put a divider wall at the side of our seat so that those who exceed the perimeter of Y don't sprawl over into our space and squash us. It would also keep Mr. Creosote from falling asleep on my shoulder and slobbering on my best jacket. In fact, I'd be happy to use that for Jack Sprat. Size has little to do with how annoying a fellow traveler could be. Partitions would be nice for privacy and keeping passengers off my shoulder.

Or am I the only one who has a problem with passengers falling asleep and fallinig sideways on my shoulder?

[kmwong]

Or am I the only one who has a problem with passengers falling asleep and fallinig sideways on my shoulder?

That is something that is almost impossible to prevent except perhaps a gentle nudge if they start encroaching on your space. I found myself almost leaning on a stranger's shoulder when I fell asleep. I suppose they could put partitions, but it would be an expensive solution for a not so terribly important problem. It's okay to turn to them and tell them that they've fallen asleep on your shoulder.

[latenight]

I've been seated next to people who used their seat and part of mine too many times. I do not like being pushed against the window by a fellow passenger who exceeds the width of the seat. It's uncomfortable for all of us and it can also lead to medical problems

I think that those who cannot fit into the economy seats should buy two seats so we'll all be comfortable (or a business class/first class seat, which is wider). The airline is selling space and while that designated space is smaller than many of us, it's X amount for Y space. If we need more than Y space, then maybe we should buy Y times 2. Alternately, perhaps some vendor at the airport could lease seat partitions that allow us to put a divider wall at the side of our seat so that those who exceed the perimeter of Y don't sprawl over into our space and squash us. It would also keep Mr. Creosote from falling asleep on my shoulder and slobbering on my best jacket. In fact, I'd be happy to use that for Jack Sprat. Size has little to do with how annoying a fellow traveler could be. Partitions would be nice for privacy and keeping passengers off my shoulder.

Or am I the only one who has a problem with passengers falling asleep and fallinig sideways on my shoulder?

LOL....I fly all the time and I've got news for you. A lot of these people wouldn't even fit in a single first class seat.

I think this is great. No more guy half in my seat sweating on me.

[Inquartata]

Oh, you selfish, selfish people! So territorial! So unwilling to share with your fellow man! To sacrifice for the overall good!

To each according to his need, you know.

Yes, we can.

[telkanuru]

Ooh, I found another one!

[latenight]

That is something that is almost impossible to prevent except perhaps a gentle nudge if they start encroaching on your space. I found myself almost leaning on a stranger's shoulder when I fell asleep. I suppose they could put partitions, but it would be an expensive solution for a not so terribly important problem. It's okay to turn to them and tell them that they've fallen asleep on your shoulder.

You could sleep on my shoulder. Fat sweaty guy, not so much.

[I_luv_saber]

Ooh, I found another one!

I just laughed so damned hard.