Stanford Fencing on the Chopping Block?

[Craig]

Stanford is one of only a handful of NCAA Division I programs in the western region and this note (provided via Facebook by David Sapery) indicates that they may be in trouble:

Hi

It has come to our attention that the athletic department will most likely need to cut sports this year. Additionally, Fencing will most likely be one of the sports they decide to cut. WE NEED YOUR HELP TO SAVE OUR SPORT AND THE CLUB.

Closing the only Div I fencing program in the entire Western half of the U.S. is not only foolish, but ends one of only a handful of our campus programs where the local community and the Stanford body mix all year long. It is a one of a kind program that should be invigorated and supported not cut.

We have offered the department to self fund our sport so as to not cost the school anything or at least very very very little. Even with this offer it seem that the department means to cut us. We all understand the situation the department is in due to the economy. However, we showed them that with the club and our summer camps we could support both the men's and women's teams. Why cut if it cost them nothing?

We are asking you all to write the provost, president or athletic director and let them know about your experience with our sport. Ask them to not cut the varsity team. Tell them about what a great facility it is and how much you are willing to help support the program.

Thanks for all your support,
Lisa Milgram

numbers
Hennesey - president henessey@stanford.edu
John Echemendy - etch@stanford.edu
Bob Bowlsby - bowlsby@stanford.edu

[dsapery]

Thanks to other program closures, the West Region within the NCAA consists of just 4 schools: Cal Tech, UC San Diego, Stanford, and Air Force. If Stanford's program is cut, I fear that it will cause a downward spiral for the sport.

In order for NCAA fencers to qualify to the Championships, they need to fence a minimum number of bouts during the season. If the region is further cut down to only 3 schools, it will force these schools to travel out of region in order to come up with the required bouts. This translates into higher costs at a time when programs are being asked to reduce their expenditures.

[Purple Fencer]

Thanks to other program closures, the West Region within the NCAA consists of just 4 schools: Cal Tech, UC San Diego, Stanford, and Air Force. If Stanford's program is cut, I fear that it will cause a downward spiral for the sport.

In order for NCAA fencers to qualify to the Championships, they need to fence a minimum number of bouts during the season. If the region is further cut down to only 3 schools, it will force these schools to travel out of region in order to come up with the required bouts. This translates into higher costs at a time when programs are being asked to reduce their expenditures.

Do they have to be NCAA bouts? CalTech and UCSD are part of the SoCal Collegiate League...I see them all the time, especially UCSD.

[dsapery]

Do they have to be NCAA bouts? CalTech and UCSD are part of the SoCal Collegiate League...I see them all the time, especially UCSD.

"against varsity teams of four-year, degree-granting institutions"

[Purple Fencer]

"against varsity teams of four-year, degree-granting institutions"

Clarify please....that means that only bouts against each other would count...not bouts against people from UCLA, ASU, Irvine, etc, since those are clubs, not varsity teams?

[dsapery]

Clarify please....that means that only bouts against each other would count...not bouts against people from UCLA, ASU, Irvine, etc, since those are clubs, not varsity teams?

I'm quoting from the NCAA handbook. Based on my read, the only bouts that count towards qualifying are those against varsity teams, meaning NCAA-sponsoring schools. So no, UCLA, ASU, Irvine, etc would not count.

[edew]

Funny, I recall seeing Stanford and other NCAA schools in the west coast attending PCS tournaments like DitD and even NACs as part of their training (for Stanford, their travel to Vegas was paid for).

[epeemike81]

Funny, I recall seeing Stanford and other NCAA schools in the west coast attending PCS tournaments like DitD and even NACs as part of their training (for Stanford, their travel to Vegas was paid for).

right, but those bouts (while valuable training) don't count toward NCAA qualification.

-m

[edew]

The bad news, at least for Stanford, is that they're cutting their nose to spite the face. A number of very academically gifted people who are fencing now will probably not put Stanford that high up on their desired choice of schools. Stanford is going to miss out on some smart kids.

[dsapery]

I don't know of any reason why they CAN'T fence against other teams and clubs. But those bouts don't count towards qualifying for the NCAA Championships.

[bigdawg2121]

Bouts against club teams do not count. Bouts against your teammates do not count* since bouts that count occur in scheduled dual meets.


*I suppose you might be able to schedule a dual meet with your 2nd squad and have it count if only b/c no one has done it and there might not be a rule against it (I haven't read the handbook that closely).

[hello?]

Funny, I recall seeing Stanford and other NCAA schools in the west coast attending PCS tournaments like DitD and even NACs as part of their training (for Stanford, their travel to Vegas was paid for).

Columbia pays for its fencers to go to the January (usually) NAC, but those bouts don't count.

[prototoast]

I've heard some rumors about this for a while now, and I also agree that if their program is cut, it will likely be the death of the remaining few schools from the west division. Already, with so few varsity programs out west, it seems hard to justify having a team. None of the other Pac-10 schools do, and they have so few competitions in a season.

Still, it would be a real shame to lose them, especially since they could cut scholarships to lower their budget while still remaining a viable program (even if they do cut the team, they'll probably spend more honoring existing scholarships next year than the rest of the budget would have been, so it wouldn't even be a huge money saver in the short term).

If the cut happens, it will be bad news for the remaining NCAA out west, and it seems like it would crush any hope of a new program starting up out here.

I also, of course, hope it doesn't happen for all the coaches and athletes on the team, but I guess it's hard for an AD to justify a program when there's less than a handful of teams on this side of the Mississippi.

[Displacement]

It says in the original post that the team has offered to self fund itself (AKA. NO money required from the school). I'm guessing they would do this through donations from Alumni and current fencer’s families.

I've heard somewhere that Stanford's fencing center is one of the best in the country, and they have robust community programs as well as team and school ones.

This is especially surprising considering they are perennial winners of the Directors cup, and to win that you need as many sports as possible. Stanford Fencing always contributes to this very prestigious award.

Why would you cut something that is costing no money and contributes greatly to school's athletic program? This doesn't make any sense to me.

[edew]

My understanding is that the program has been self-funded for a long time. Maybe they went to a non self-funded arrangement and might consider going back to a self-funded program (the self-funding, AFAIK, is from the Cardinal Fencing Club membership dues and lesson fees).

[MdA]

....
If the cut happens, it will be bad news for the remaining NCAA out west, and it seems like it would crush any hope of a new program starting up out here.
....

The remaining three varsity teams will probably be merged into the Midwest Region. There may be hope to add programs...since the Midwest region will actually get a little bigger....but probably not in the far West...maybe in the Southwest. These 3 programs had to travel in recent years to get enough varsity bouts....this adds expense for programs out West.

[dsapery]

The remaining three varsity teams will probably be merged into the Midwest Region. There may be hope to add programs...since the Midwest region will actually get a little bigger....but probably not in the far West...maybe in the Southwest. These 3 programs had to travel in recent years to get enough varsity bouts....this adds expense for programs out West.

There is zero support among the MW and W schools to merge the region.

[hello?]

This is terrible news. I also feel for the incoming freshmen who might have thought they would fence in college -- I know of at least one good fencer from this area who had applied early decision (although I don't know if she got in or not).

[MdA]

There is zero support among the MW and W schools to merge the region.

When has that ever stopped the NCAA?

[seven6ty]

That is rather sad to hear. And club team bouts don't count. Additionally, at least when I was active the the NCAA Western conference, you can end up being penalized when it comes to the year end tallies for having bouts against teams and opponents of a lower strength factor. Even if you have a higher win/loss percentage than other fencers, when athletes from schools like Stanford could afford to go fence Ivy league opponents out East. Even if they did do poorly, they have a higher rating at the end of the year.