Stanford Fencing on the Chopping Block?

[wahrman]

I suppose something like this really depends upon which part of the country you live in. I didn't go to a big lacrosse school but still saw people outside playing lacrosse almost every warm day.

I've not seen any lacrosse matches ever. Never seen it live and only saw snippets on tv. Of course, I'm not the typical 'merkin.

[edew]

Could you please elaborate this point. I don't follow.

They go for first blood.

[JEC]

One important metric for ADs is graduation rates of student-athletes.

Fencing typically gets a top placement in the list of collegial sport teams every year.

http://chronicle.com/weekly/v55/i09/09a02201.htm
http://chronicle.com/weekly/v54/i07/07a03602.htm

[dsapery]

THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!!!

(or in this case, the keyboard is mightier than the hatchet).

I've just heard that Stanford Fencing will continue next season!

Looks like the deluge of emails and letters from the fencing community and from NCAA coaches convinced the university to keep the program going.

[noodle]

THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD!!!

(or in this case, the keyboard is mightier than the hatchet).

I've just heard that Stanford Fencing will continue next season!

Looks like the deluge of emails and letters from the fencing community and from NCAA coaches convinced the university to keep the program going.

ah, great news

now, can we use this power for awesome and create some new varsity programs?

[gladius]

now, can we use this power for awesome and create some new varsity programs?

As a matter of fact one of the reasons for Stanford considering cutting the varsity fencing program was/is the very small number of colleges with such programs out west. Currently there are Stanford, Caltech, UC San Diego, and Airforce Academy. So indeed new programs in that part of the country would help. How likely this is going to happen that's another matter altogether.

As to the financial data concerning sports and fencing at Stanford here is what I could gather from various sources:

Stanford athletics department includes

- 35 intercollegiate varsity teams
- 15 men's,
- 19 women's and
- one coed
- the physical education department,
- intramurals,
- club sports,
- open recreation and
- the Stanford Golf Course.

The department has an annual budget of approximately $75 million (August 2007 figures)

Fencing (men and women) at Stanford:

26 athletes (14 men, 12 women) 2008-9

$476,000 for varsity fencing programs (2008-9) which include:

- scholarships
- salaries
- operating expenses, etc.

but does not include a variety of other support services which are funded centrally within the department of athletics.


During the coming three fiscal years Stanford athletics must reduce its spending by almost $9 million.

Another positive news: the NCAA has just recertified Stanford as Division I university.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/a...-I-042209.html

[prototoast]

On a semi-related note, expect stanford to add sand volleyball to their list of varsity sports for the 2010-2011 school year. Cuts have to be made, but not... you know... where it counts.

[foilwatcher]

OK, the question comes up...are we interested in the expansion of NCAA Fencing, or Div I NCAA Fencing? From the thread above, it seems that half(?) the costs are scholarships. Now, I understand that you will (probably) not win any National Championship without scholarships to attract the elite fencers, there is a long history of sucessful (meaning strong student participation, and team participation in regional events) for Div III teams, who, of course, do not offer scholarships (MIT, Brandeis, Hopkins, NYU come to mind). In the time of reduced budgets, transitioning a Club team to a DivIII team might be the way to go...worry about DivI and scholarships as the next step.

Additionally, of course, the IVY schools do not offer sports scholarships, but there are, obviously, other incentives to attending those schools (larger general financial aid packages, academic prestige...).

[seak]

In the time of reduced budgets, transitioning a Club team to a DivIII team might be the way to go...worry about DivI and scholarships as the next step.

This isn't a matter of choice, except for a few grandfathered in programs (Hopkins Lacrosse) a school and all of their sports teams are either Div 1, 2 or 3. If Florida's club team for instance transitioned to varsity it would by definition be Div 1 because Florida is a Div 1 school.

Of course, any Div 1 school can choose not to offer scholarships, and many do not offer scholarships in sports they support.

[Cerian]

It seems like places like Berkeley and UCLA could easily support NCAA fencing programs, without necessarily even needing scholarships, by drawing on California's prodigious youth fencing output and low in-state tuition, as well as relying on their own very high academic reputations to pull people in (21st and 25th according to US News for undergrad, 1st and 3rd for public universities). Coaching resources are also already present in their respective areas to a high degree as well. Often times very good fencers already go to these schools , but either aren't active because of burnout, lack of competition, or are active through outside channels (or within club programs if there happens to be a confluence of capable fencers). Of course I'm sure there are all sorts of barriers to such a development, but those seem like some of the best possibilities for any expansion of NCAA membership in the West. (Maybe ASU also, but I don't know specifics about their situation).

[wwalkerjr]

It seems like places like Berkeley and UCLA could easily support NCAA fencing programs, without necessarily even needing scholarships, . . . .

Cal and UCLA both have fencing clubs. I will leave it to others on this forum to talk about the club. I know Jonathan Jefferies, who posts frequently, is associated with Cal Fencing.
I suspect that other West Coast schools have active clubs (Years ago, I took beginner courses at University of Washington and I fenced for Oregon State in 1980 and 1981 while in graduate school).
I think the question is more about running the program as an NCAA D1 intercollegiate sport as is the case at Stanford, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, etc

[Displacement]

I think the chances of any Div1 school adding a new program now are slim to none. That Being said, Oregon (the state) has a long and proud fencing tradition, but I don't think it's very broad based. Same for Colorado.

[Inspector Gadget]

I'll probably write my support, even if you guys gave me a very bad time. The sport is just too georgeous to get rid of. It's horrible to realize that such sports as: volleyball on the sand, volleyball in the pool while they already have volleyball on the court have taken the lead over a 200 year old sport such as fencing. If they need to cut back in an area of fencing, I would take a second look at Teams and go back to the individual competetor. We simply haven't gotten to the place where we can cope with having as many team players yet. In my letter to their staff I will try to emphasis that fencing is a sport that supports international cooperation, with memberships that include all people, that the level of injury in fencing is slight in comparision to the injury levels found in other sports such as football. But friends, it's nearly a lost cause: there is a mentality out there that is growingly stupid to the power of three. We may just have to watch as the world is covered by a giagantic ball of mud and crap, and allow everything to come back in a hundred years or so.

[usafencer]

Even with the (wonderful!) statement that the program will continue next year, our efforts should not stop now. The letters clearly had an impact, and even if they did not directly alter the decision, they've shown the administrators/coaches/even university president that the fencing world is a small, but vocal minority. You never know what the situation will be two years from now, or if they decide they need to save more money later this year, etc, so we should continue to flood them with our voices. It seems like Stanford fencing is on the "endangered" list right now, so pass on the news to your club-mates to continue sending letters. More support can never hurt, and it is important to make sure the faculty sees how committed we are to the sport.

[rchung]

The team is incredibly grateful to the fencing community at large for speaking up on our behalf! Thank you so much for all of your letters and emails, and even the analysis and perspective on this forum thread. All of the help means so much...thank you for saving Stanford Fencing!

[Cerian]

Cal and UCLA both have fencing clubs. I will leave it to others on this forum to talk about the club. I know Jonathan Jefferies, who posts frequently, is associated with Cal Fencing.
I suspect that other West Coast schools have active clubs (Years ago, I took beginner courses at University of Washington and I fenced for Oregon State in 1980 and 1981 while in graduate school).
I think the question is more about running the program as an NCAA D1 intercollegiate sport as is the case at Stanford, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, etc

Yes, I know, but having club programs doesn't do anything to help the stability of NCAA fencing in the West Coast. Fullerton already shut down, and as we now know Stanford is in a precarious position, and ncaa programs in the west are in danger of entering a vicious circle as the number of programs decreases... Further, there is definitely a level of fencer on the west coast who is not well served by the club system present.

[foilwatcher]

MIT announced yesterday that it was cutting 7 sports (albeit a DIV III program, not DIV I), to trim down to a "manageable" 33 Varsity Sports, due to budget issues. (The 41 they were carrying was an extraordinary number for a DIV III program...at 33 they are still, I think they are still the largest DIV III program).

With great trepidation, I opened the email, and found the list:
alpine skiing, golf, men’s and women’s ice hockey, men’s and women’s gymnastics, pistol and wrestling.

NOT Fencing!

[Displacement]

MIT announced yesterday that it was cutting 7 sports (albeit a DIV III program, not DIV I), to trim down to a "manageable" 33 Varsity Sports, due to budget issues. (The 41 they were carrying was an extraordinary number for a DIV III program...at 33 they are still, I think they are still the largest DIV III program).

With great trepidation, I opened the email, and found the list:
alpine skiing, golf, men’s and women’s ice hockey, men’s and women’s gymnastics, pistol and wrestling.

NOT Fencing!

It looks like there are only 36 NCAA sanctioned sports. MIT must have been supporting other VERY esoteric sports.

I know Ohio State supports all 36. As stated earlier in the thread, Stanford has 35.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal

[prototoast]

It looks like there are only 36 NCAA sanctioned sports. MIT must have been supporting other VERY esoteric sports.

I know Ohio State supports all 36. As stated earlier in the thread, Stanford has 35.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal

Off the top o my head, Stanford doesn't support men's lacrosse, m/w hockey and bowling.

[foilwatcher]

It looks like there are only 36 NCAA sanctioned sports. MIT must have been supporting other VERY esoteric sports.

I know Ohio State supports all 36. As stated earlier in the thread, Stanford has 35.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal

I believe it is customary to count Men's and Women's activities as separate.

That is, 33 NCAA teams, if you would like it re-phrased. Most people refer to Women's Basketball and Men's Basketball, for example as separate "sports".