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  1. #21
    Curmudgeon Emeritus Array Inquartata's Avatar
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    Put me in front of an audience and I suspect that I would turn into, in the words of the old joke, an oil painting...
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Array telkanuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwump View Post
    I guess so... In which case I was pretty mentally defective until very a short time ago.
    I'd dispute that point.
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
    Aureli pathetice et cinaede Furi

  3. #23
    Just Joined Array Shwump's Avatar
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    Ha, very funny.
    "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli

  4. #24
    Senior Member Array jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquartata View Post
    THIS is your standard?! Really?

    So anyone who's not a glib public speaker is "mentally defective"?
    Odd comment for a person whose erudition demonstrates his intelligence, eh? There, a compliment and retort all in one go.

    It's said that Bush can actually speak coherently in casual conversation and on topics about which he's interested and informed - like baseball (just like it's claimed that in certain alternative universes Al Gore has a non-robotic personality). Unfortunately, foreign and domestic policy didn't fit into that category. He probably would have been any okay baseball commissioner.
    "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."

  5. #25
    Posting Hound Array Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquartata View Post
    THIS is your standard?! Really?

    So anyone who's not a glib public speaker is "mentally defective"?
    That, plus his 8 year head-in-the-sand tenure....Pushing your pwn programs incessantly and hoping reality will turn your way is not good governing in any way.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

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  6. #26
    Just Joined Array Shwump's Avatar
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    Describe these "Head in the sand policies." (It's hard to argue aginst such abstract ideas, since there's nothing to really argue against.)
    "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli

  7. #27
    Posting Hound Array Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwump View Post
    Describe these "Head in the sand policies." (It's hard to argue aginst such abstract ideas, since there's nothing to really argue against.)
    "Brownie, you're doing a great job" comes to mind...especially since he was NOT.

    Lying to the public about WMD in Iraq

    Absolutely NO PLAN to do anything after initial combat stopped in Iraq...you can't wing-it when rebuilding a country.

    Utterly ignorant of other cultures' views (the shoe ioncident being an example), and thinking that simply by invading Iraq would turn into a Western-style democracy at the flip of a switch.

    Damn near anything he and Cheney did do erode civil protections.

    Etc.

    January 20th could not come soon enough.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  8. #28
    Just Joined Array Shwump's Avatar
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    Wow. No more MSNBC for you! lol
    "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli

  9. #29
    Posting Hound Array Purple Fencer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwump View Post
    Wow. No more MSNBC for you! lol
    Not all of it came from MSNBC....I saw he had no post-war plan even considered back in 04.

    America's rep worldwide took a bigger hit under W than at any time since we became a significant player after WWII. Any goodwill we had immediately post 9/11 was utterly wasted. If we'd only gone into Afghanistan -- where Bin Ladin actually was -- it might've turned out differently.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  10. #30
    Just Joined Array Shwump's Avatar
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    Who cares what everybody else thinks of us?

    We NEEDED to go into Iraq, even if there wasn't a post war stratagy. Bush lying about WMDs? Please. Bush was going by reliable inteligence. Not all of it was US I believe.


    Hilary Clinton said she was ABSOLUTLY 100% possitive that Saddam was a threat and needed to be taken out. She made a big deal out of it, a fact the left has conveniantly forgotten. (And if anyone mentions it its "Bush lied, bush was misleading everything is bushes falt, Blah blah blah.)
    "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli

  11. #31
    Senior Member Array fencerchica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwump View Post
    Who cares what everybody else thinks of us?

    We NEEDED to go into Iraq, even if there wasn't a post war stratagy. Bush lying about WMDs? Please. Bush was going by reliable inteligence. Not all of it was US I believe.
    You and former Secretary of State Colin Powell appear to disagree on the reliability of that intel, as well as on the wisdom of that choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shwump View Post
    Hilary Clinton said she was ABSOLUTLY 100% possitive that Saddam was a threat and needed to be taken out. She made a big deal out of it, a fact the left has conveniantly forgotten. (And if anyone mentions it its "Bush lied, bush was misleading everything is bushes falt, Blah blah blah.)
    Last I checked, Hilary Clinton lost her bid for the Democratic nomination. Her support for the Iraq war was a major ding to her campaign, whereas Obama's consistent opposition to the war was an advantage to his.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Array telkanuru's Avatar
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    You'd think by now people would have learned not to drink the kool-aid.
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
    Aureli pathetice et cinaede Furi

  13. #33
    Just Joined Array Shwump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fencerchica View Post
    You and former Secretary of State Colin Powell appear to disagree on the reliability of that intel, as well as on the wisdom of that choice.



    Last I checked, Hilary Clinton lost her bid for the Democratic nomination. Her support for the Iraq war was a major ding to her campaign, whereas Obama's consistent opposition to the war was an advantage to his.
    Colin Powell and I disagree on a lot of things. If I remember correctly, he was supporting Obama....
    "There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli

  14. #34
    Senior Member Array TrainingDummy's Avatar
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    Bush's Speaking

    Watch this, watch this, watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4Bhmm22xo

    An alternative to the hypothesis presented at the end of the video is that Bush's speeches were intentionally dumbed down by Karl Rove to make him look like an "Aw shucks, I'm a good ol' boy from Texas" to garner the redneck vote. Either way, the discrepancy is very clear.
    The pen may be mightier than the sword, but why pick just one?

  15. #35
    Senior Member Array latenight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by telkanuru View Post
    You'd think by now people would have learned not to drink the kool-aid.

    There are plenty of people still drinking the kool-aid. The only thing that has changed is the flavor.
    Whatever doesn't kill you, is gonna leave a scar...

    Looking for a certain Striptease......

  16. #36
    Curmudgeon Emeritus Array Inquartata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Fencer View Post
    That, plus
    A-HA! I call definitional retreat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Fencer View Post
    Lying to the public about WMD in Iraq
    Odd, despite the battalions of talking heads and casual ranters who have levelled that accusation, we are still waiting for proof of "lied", as opposed to "mistaken"...
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

  17. #37
    Senior Member Array jeff's Avatar
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    Back to the OT:
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    "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."

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