with or without (fencing) pants

[antoinette]

Knew that subject line would get you to look ...!

How dangerous is it to fence without proper fencing trousers (I used to live in the UK and can't call trousers "pants" without cringing!). Many of the fencers in my adult group don't have fencing trousers ... and I've put off purchasing them as the rest of the stuff ate my budget.

[Greg]

I think it really is much safer to wear fencing pants and one's that fit fairly tight. Lots of people in my club fence in warmups and they can and do catch blades. Plus the fencing pant are padded and have a very high waist that officers more protection. Just makes more sense.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Aside from the overlap, I don't think it's THAT much safer to wear knickers. Yes, it's safer, and I wouldn't recommend sweatpants or somesuch, but something like loose fitting jeans offer similar protection to some knickers out there. What I'd be worried about is the general lack of mobility provided by that option, however. Still, overall, I'd say that plastrons, masks, etc. are a bit higher on my priorities list when buying equipment.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

It does depend, to some extent, on what weapon you're fencing and who you're fencing. If you're fencing sabre against reasonably experience people who are all taller than you, it's not as important as if you're fencing epee against brand new kids half your height.

Plenty of people don't wear knickers and do fine. It's not ideal, but it's not unheard of. But if there's some reason you feel unsafe doing so, you probably want to trust that feeling.

[fdad]

There are some pretty important organs (and veins and arteries) lurking around the lower edges of jackets/lames. I would not let my kid fence someone that wasn't wearing knickers.

[Slacker]

My thought is that knickers are rather low on the priority list if someone is just getting into fencing. Yes, knickers have two sturdy layers of fabric, but a student can wear a pair of shorts under sweats for practice. Certyainly I'd recommend a cup for the guys, til they're fencing people whose aim isn't so wild.
The thing with the uniform is, it makes the mental prep better. I find that I fence better if I'm wearing the uniform.

[Phrogger]

I suppose a safety hierarchy would go something like this (with 1 being the most important gear):

1. Mask
2. Plastron
3. Jacket
4. Knickers
5. Glove

Many clubs will allow people to fence without pants, but it may void the club's liability coverage. As mentioned, the gap between the pants and the jacket may be the most dangerous issue. I think our club lets beginners practice without knickers for only the first one or two practices, after that they get fitted for club-owned gear. If you MUST do this, denim or a similar heavy fabric will give you more protection than sweatpants or track pants. If you're going to fence for longer than say, six weeks, just get some knickers.

Back in the day I would practice in track pants as it seemed the "cool" thing to do in my club. I don't do that anymore as I value my arteries.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Back in the day I would practice in track pants as it seemed the "cool" thing to do in my club. I don't do that anymore as I value my arteries.

...I stopped doing anything at fencing practice (including warmups) in anything other than my knickers because they were more comfortable.

I should note, however, that not all knickers are made equal. Before I acquired the knickers I have now, I would wear other clothing instead regularly, because other clothing (when picked appropriately) really was safer than my knickers.

You could not only see the color of my underwear, but also if there was pattern, and what it was. As in, flowers were distinguishable from polka dots. That didn't strike me as particularly safe.

[antoinette]

Interesting that someone mentioned plastron as 2. I have a new LP jacket (350 newton) and was thinking of fencing without a plastron until it comes in the mail. (I ordered the LP econo plastron but think it's too thick/hot and don't like how the neck is cut - am going to get a Negrini but can't get their website to work ...). So ... am I a fool to go a few days without the plastron?

[mrbiggs]

Interesting that someone mentioned plastron as 2. I have a new LP jacket (350 newton) and was thinking of fencing without a plastron until it comes in the mail. (I ordered the LP econo plastron but think it's too thick/hot and don't like how the neck is cut - am going to get a Negrini but can't get their website to work ...). So ... am I a fool to go a few days without the plastron?

The fact of the matter is that 80% of fencing gear is to stop you from getting stabbed. Now, it's rare that there is a situation in which you are actually in danger of this. It comes up most often in the form of a broken blade. So basically you're just taking your chances here, hoping that a blade doesn't break and try to penetrate your knickers or the seam of your jacket (for the plasteron). Odds are quite against this happening, which is good news, but if it does happen you could be seriously injured, which is bad.

[magic_moose]

- am going to get a Negrini but can't get their website to work ...). So ... am I a fool to go a few days without the plastron?

You can get a Negrini plastron from Absolute ( http://www.absolutefencinggear.com/shopping/ ). I just bought one myself. Very comfortable.

Yes, you can go a few days without one. After all, on any given day, the odds are extremely low that your jacket will ever get punctured.

As far as knickers (breeches) go, they are less important than a good jacket and plastron, but if you are an epeeist or even a foilest, remember that your femoral artery is down there, and once punctured, you don't last long. The odds of a puncture are really low, but the consequences are terrible. Personally, I find knickers the most comfortable nether limb garments to fence in, so I don't question my choice to wear knickers.

[antoinette]

]You can get a Negrini plastron from Absolute. I just bought one myself. Very comfortable.

How did you find the sizing - do they tend to run small, average, large?

[magic_moose]

Not sure.. The guy said "XL" was my size. Frankly I suspect an L would have done, but a plastron isn't exactly a form fitting garment. Give them a call or use the size chart on the Website.

Actually, I just realized, I misspoke. I went with the intention if buying a Negrini, but bought an Absolute FIE. It seems they are identical except for the price. I believe they are going to stop carrying the Negrini plastrons for that reason.

[bunbury]

I suppose a safety hierarchy would go something like this (with 1 being the most important gear):

1. Mask
2. Plastron
3. Jacket
4. Knickers
5. Glove

How does a plastron even make the list? It's completely worthless. An FIE jacket provides more protection that a non-FIE plastron+non-FIE jacket combined.

[tbryan]

How does a plastron even make the list? It's completely worthless. An FIE jacket provides more protection that a non-FIE plastron+non-FIE jacket combined.

Not if the seam tears.

The weakest part of the jacket is going to be the seams. Your jacket has a seam where the sleeves are attached. If a blade breaks and the broken blade rips through the seam under your arm, the plastron is the only thing between you and a punctured lung. Punctured lung is how some of the few fencing deaths have occurred.

The plastron is required to have seams that do not overlap with the seams of the jacket. That way, if the blade goes through the seam of the jacket, it's definitely not hitting the seam in the plastron.

[DavidX]

Plastrons are for sissies.

Who actually wears them when they're not being forced to?

Who?

Sissies.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I suppose a safety hierarchy would go something like this (with 1 being the most important gear):

1. Mask
2. Plastron
3. Jacket
4. Knickers
5. Glove

I disagree with this. I think the jacket is more important than the plastron. Then the plastron. I mean, the plastron is meant to make up for a weakness in the jacket, but it doesn't have anything like a blade catcher, protection for the neck area, doesn't protect an entire side of your body.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Plastrons are for sissies.

Who actually wears them when they're not being forced to?

Who?

Sissies.

Why not wear it? You have to wear it while competing, so if there's a comfort/mobility/heat issue, shouldn't you get used to it when fencing in practice? Do you just not wear it because it makes you feel tougher not to? I don't find that my plastron provides any extra "protection" while normally fencing, but I know that if a blade breaks and goes through the seams of my jacket, I'll be happy that I have it.

That's like saying that fencing with a jacket/knickers is for sissies. I mean, why not?

[foibles]

Buddy of mine went in to buy a motorcycle helmet. Grabbed a half-helmet and asked the clerk about it. "What." Said the clerk without looking up. "You don't really care about the lower half of your face?"... He decided the full face helmet was the way to go.

It's not a very high percentage probability, Antoinette, that anyone will inadvertantly punch a broken blade into one of your thighs. Then again... you can get cen1 knickers for 40.00 or so.

Your call.

[DavidX]

Why not wear it? You have to wear it while competing, so if there's a comfort/mobility/heat issue, shouldn't you get used to it when fencing in practice? Do you just not wear it because it makes you feel tougher not to?

Plastrons are for sissies for real.