unused moves?

[Sildar]

Originally posted by Psi Shadowdark
hehe what are intagliata and expulsions ?

An expulsion is a move in which you slide your blade along the opponent's blade, from the forte to foible, in a scissorlike motion of ever increasing force. Done correctly it throws the opponent's blade down or to the side violently as your arm reaches full extension with the point attacking their now exposed target; it is quite useful against fencers who leave their arm extended too long after completing their attacks.

Intagliata is the opposite of the inquartata, in that it is a voiding action that removes your body from the line of attack with a simultaneous counterthrust, only to the inside rather than the outside. For a righty, this means you step left with your right foot, which displaces your body to your lefthand side. Obviously it is useful against an opponent attacking your right-hand side.

[Psi Shadowdark]

ahhh i c thank you for that information

ill have to ask around about that expulsion, it seems like that would be a useful move to know

[haggis]

Sildar

Thanks for the description of an expulsion. It sounds like a froissement. Do you know if it is the same move or is there a difference?

Thanks

Haggis

[Sildar]

Originally posted by haggis
Sildar

Thanks for the description of an expulsion. It sounds like a froissement. Do you know if it is the same move or is there a difference?

Thanks

Haggis

Yep, same as a froissement; perhaps coaches your side of the pond still teach them, but most coaches here claim they are obsolete. And at the international level that would certainly appear to be true...

[haggis]

Haven't seen one taught for about 15 years except for curiosity value. Thanks again for the info.

Haggis

[edew]

Originally posted by wheeler
I can't say that I've ever actually used a Ballestra in a bout, that I can remember. I've had at least two accomplished coaches teach it in their beginning classes, but I don't think it's ever really used.

If you're not using the ballestra, you're really handicapping yourself with one of the best moves in fencing.

I was officiating epee yesterday at the LBI. All good fencers used ballestra as the main method of making a successful epee attack. If you make advance-lunge in epee, I think you're doomed.

Sabre certainly uses ballestra to gain the distance and speed.

At the moment, the move du jour for foil is the slow advance before the advance lunge, but even then, a good ballestra will make that hit that most opponents will not expect. I think a good ballestra attack in foil will get you a good six or so points in a 15-touch bout. If the opponent is really stymied by the attack, you can hit all 15 of your points with it.

I think the great unused attack now, at least in foil, is the heavy bind attack popular in the late seventies and early-to-mid 80s. There's a lot of hand action, binding and taking the blade.

But fencers now are smart enough not to go head-to-head with the binds and just bounce of it and make a stop-hit with displacement of body (step in, step out, step to the side) and avoid the touch.

[edew]

Originally posted by 135711
Unused moves:- Passata Soto. Don't think that has been used for quite a while. Haven't seen it since the days of manual presiding.

yes, i believe this person is quite right, also, prime isn't really used very much, except in a crunch. [/b][/quote]

The passata sotto is one among several displacing target actions. All of them are in use, including ducking, twisting the body, sucking in the gut (great in epee), stepping in (great in foil), and a quick jump to the side (sometimes work in sabre).

The prime is about a basic and frequently used parry in foil as any other parry. Indeed, the standard defense against a flick attack by an opponent in the opposite hand is the prime counter-attack/close-out. You get the point below the flicking blade, extend the arm FORWARD (not upwards) and the gentle grazing of the flicking blade on your blade is enough to slow it down and make it miss, while at the same time, that flicking blade pushes your tip right into the body. Very effective.

Some epee fencers also utilize a prime parry, mainly to move the point so far past their own body that the riposte is a simple action without having to worry about any quick remises.

Prime parries can and do occur in sabre, but not as often as in other weapons.

[135711]

let me edit this post for you...
sorry, i was dodging bullets when i wrote this

[135711]

so after the parry, comes the riposte, what do you consider to be the best riposte after prime?

[edew]

Prime riposte.

[135711]

i see it now, i'm too serious, i can't believe it, i'm totally serious.

okay, here's a joke; 'maybe this view!"

can you explain the prime riposte as best as you can

[135711]

Can you describe the PRIME RIPOSTE? thank you

[sorry, I was dodging a strange man in the library when I wrote that]

[epeefencer74]

In one of my last post I mentioned that I haven't seen the Passato sotto in a while. So last night I decided to use it in a friendly bout in my club just for the heck of it. This generated a discussion on whether it was legal or not without a clear concensus. Can anyone help?

[veeco]

It's legal

[neevel]

The passata soto is actually specifically mentioned in the rules as being legal:

t.21 Displacing the target and ducking are allowed even if during the action the unarmed hand comes into contact with the strip.


You rarely see it because it's very much a "one-shot" move for a specific situation (a counterattack against a strongly committed but mis-timed attack to the high lines), which, if you misjudge, leaves your back WIDE open. That vulnerability is enhanced by the fact that orthopedic grips (particularly when they have a decent downward cant to the tang) make it much easier to drop the point down onto the back, especially in comparision to an Italian grip with a wrist strap.

It really was never a common move, just a very showy one that got seen a lot in posed pictures because it looked cool.

-Dave

[Psi Shadowdark]

i was in a unrated tourney last month (where i got my E at =))
and in the pool there was a younger kid that keep doing a passta
and after a while he did it so much id drop my whole arm and point the tip above my wrist and he would practically fall on it.

[epeefencer74]

Originally posted by neevel
The passata soto is actually specifically mentioned in the rules as being legal:

t.21 Displacing the target and ducking are allowed even if during the action the unarmed hand comes into contact with the strip.


You rarely see it because it's very much a "one-shot" move for a specific situation (a counterattack against a strongly committed but mis-timed attack to the high lines), which, if you misjudge, leaves your back WIDE open. That vulnerability is enhanced by the fact that orthopedic grips (particularly when they have a decent downward cant to the tang) make it much easier to drop the point down onto the back, especially in comparision to an Italian grip with a wrist strap.

It really was never a common move, just a very showy one that got seen a lot in posed pictures because it looked cool.

-Dave

Cool bananas Now I can go back at tell them that it is. How I used it was perhaps may be considered unorthordox. Basically it was a feint to the top of the arm to draw a circular sixte parry, which I immediatly decieved in to a passata sotto to the underarm. My opponent was in the habit of stepping back as he parried. I have never been trained to use it, just thought it would be cool to try and pull it off. Only got a couple of hits with it though. The suprise wore off pretty quickly.

[Psi Shadowdark]

Btw, i started using balestras today, and it worked well thx for the advice, i already knew the move but my salle simply called it a jump so i didn;t know what you guys were talking about at first =)

[135711]

opps.....just read it again...I"VE BEEN seeking the reply for PRime Riposte for many years, will someone please describe? I gave my best answer for the balestra.

[Psi Shadowdark]

??? huh