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Boo Boo · 10-17-2002, 07:18 PM

The most effective defenses against flicks I find tend to be either sharply cutting distance on them or parrying with my mask (I don't think it is technically legal, but it works a treat and is very hard to prove that you "did it on purpose"). You can also run away, but can only run so far...

Some flicks can be parried, but most of the people I fence flick so well that it will wrap around most parries (and if you do a nice wide parry, they will just change lines and hit you anyway).

Boo

Psi Shadowdark · 10-18-2002, 12:45 AM

Boo boo thats a good idea about the mask, i am really gonna try that, im having problems latly with whip over on a flick to 4. any have a idea how to best deflect a flick to 4?

peircer · 10-21-2002, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psi Shadowdark
Boo boo thats a good idea about the mask, i am really gonna try that, im having problems latly with whip over on a flick to 4. any have a idea how to best deflect a flick to 4?

If you're talking about the flicks that go around your parry 4, then parring the blade either farther forward or farther back will stop the whip around the parry effect. If you parry right in the middle, it'll just make the flick whip even better into your chest.

Psi Shadowdark · 10-21-2002, 01:28 AM

gotcha =) thx

***Craig*** · 04-14-2003, 11:20 AM

The ever popular flicking thread. Resurrected here since it's a frequent search.

edew · 04-14-2003, 11:34 AM

Gee thanks, Craig.

You didn't think it could have spontaneously created itself within a matter of weeks?

D'Artagnan1673 · 04-14-2003, 11:35 AM

LOL!!!

S. Fisher · 04-14-2003, 11:50 AM

"Straight classical fencing is for the losers ........, It sucks."

Well Folks, I guess I am a loser.

D'Artagnan1673 · 04-14-2003, 12:20 PM

I really can't think of a good reason to comment on this, after all, everything I'd say was said yesterday.

Thefore, I will endeavor to say something I haven't said before. Coming from a classical perspective, I am beginning to appreciate some of the more dynamic aspects of a faster foil game. In the two weeks I've been back to fencing. I've incorportated some of my modern epee stance to foil in that I bring my back foot to more of an angle which gives me more speed, imo. I think that I can benefit from the added mobility of modern foil with very solid bladework. If I can learn to move quicker, then perhaps a french grip foilist may stand a chance at lower level competitions.

Sildar · 04-14-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by webmaster
The ever popular flicking thread. Resurrected here since it's a frequent search.

I would have been happier if this thread had stayed lost, personally...

typoink · 04-14-2003, 01:51 PM

Just to rebutt something you mentioned in the OP (sorry I'm joining late), weighting touches in Epee is not entirely a good idea if you're looking to recreate a duel. IIRC, a lot of duels, if not most, were to blood, not to death. Thus, a "minor" stab in the hand or such would be just as valid. I DO think that weighted scoring WOULD make epee more interesting as a sport, though, as it would reward tougher attacks, I think.

I'm a classically-minded modern fencer, personally. I don't have access to a real classical club or teadher, so I just try and make do with what I can. To me, fencing isn't really a sport. It's a martial art. When I compete, I really don't feel competetive, I'm simply trying to gauge my ability and progress. I'm not just concerned with "trying to make the light go off." At all. I'm concerned with trying to make the light go off well . Flicking is something I'll use, occassionally, when it really presents itself, but it's not my forte nor my passion. I don't look down on fencers who flick, but I do consider them to be pursuing a different mode of fencing. I really don't care if they beat me and get ranked higher or whatnot, I'm entirely fencing for myself.

D'Artagnan1673 · 04-14-2003, 02:01 PM

Yes, I think that weighting touches would give epee a more dynamic feel. You could, to some extent, simulate a duel to the death.

Head and chest shots are fatal, one touch, one kill. Everything else gets awarded one third of a kill.

Better yet, leg shots mean you have to hop on one leg or drag your leg. Hitting your sword arm means you have to fence with your off hand. Bouts will take longer, but its a sure method to resurrect the Italian grip!

The latter is certainly meant as a joke, but I think there is some merit to the former idea.

FlamingDeth · 04-14-2003, 02:16 PM

Actually, a touch to the head most likely wouldn't be fatal, as there's that obnoxious skull there keeping you from stabbing someone in the brain, while the chest/abdomen/groin area (you kow, pretty much valid target area in foil) are all nice and squishy, full of all sorts of organs you can't life without. That, to my understanding, is why the head isn't valid target in foil.

Sildar · 04-14-2003, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673

Better yet, leg shots mean you have to hop on one leg or drag your leg. Hitting your sword arm means you have to fence with your off hand. Bouts will take longer, but its a sure method to resurrect the Italian grip!

This already exists; it's called the SCA, and 95% of the "rapier" combat they do doesn't bear any resemblance to realistic fighting or anything that could be called fencing...

D'Artagnan1673 · 04-14-2003, 02:38 PM

I know, thats why I was being so tongue in cheek.

FlamingDeth · 04-14-2003, 02:40 PM

Wait, a stab to the head with a rapier in SCA counts as a kill? I did not know that.

Ah well, just one more reason to stick with classical fencing over some re-ennactement...thing.

D'Artagnan1673 · 04-14-2003, 02:47 PM

I don't know, we wouldn't be following SCA so much if we didn't disable limbs as they were hit. It would still hold a good appearance of being fencing.

I wonder how we'd truly be able to discern a shoulder hit from a torso hit. My guess would be a lame & electric mask setup simular to foil and or sabre. I am sure the wiring could be done (I say that in ignorance).

Mischa · 04-14-2003, 02:49 PM

Flicking was used in duelling times to remove your opponents clothes or wig. It demonstrated not only your fine point control but also your immense duelling skill in making such a mockery of your opponent.

D'Artagnan1673 · 04-14-2003, 03:04 PM

Now that sounds like it came straight out of the Scarlet Pimpernel.

135711 · 04-14-2003, 03:13 PM

"Off with his wig!!!"

This thread is getting more and more interesting. The flick is really for foil. We should learn how to defend against it. It's just as "real" as any other form of fencing. I've tried the raised guard and it really doesn't work very well, because the blade goes around the forte and that's it. So there are several alternatives: retreat, get your space and renew your own attack when his fails; work out a new parry, like in saber. The flick to the shoulder and the flick to the chest.

The two basic flicks seem to be the flick to the shoulder and the flick to the chest. I like the flick to the chest, it usually doesn't hurt the opponent, and is less controversal, so you still get your point. It's also easier to do, but you have to be fencing those 'modernests with the angles', the classissists don't use the flick, so you can fence a less angular bout. They're both good forms, it's up to us a fencers to adjust, or to be strong enough to set the pace. A very stong classical fencer is not going to let an inexperience modernist defeat him.....or will he? Recently I lost a bout 4-5 to a more advanced epeeist, she really knew how to post to the hand, it was really infuriating, but what can you do? I simply didn't see it, she made the blade dissapear. I realized it when I got home, and then said, 'it's because her preparation was very smooth, and she used a simple thrust using the same force as in her preparation, so there was no discontinuation between her preparation and her final attack" With that information, I can now adjust myself a little bit more, and next time get that final point!