Flicks

[edew]

Originally posted by Bebop and Rocksteady
I was implying that caring only for making the light go off is superficial, not flicking. It's like playing football and finding joy only in seeing your score on the scoreboard.

You are probably very new to the sport. The great joy in the sport isn't to see a score come up. It is to see the culmination of a multitude of minute actions leading up to the resulting point. The jockeying for position, the mental battles on who has control over the footwork, the preparation of the hand and arm, the anticipation of the response. All those things make up the joy of fencing. The eventual score is just the manifestation of properly executing each and everyone one of those little nuances, each and everyone strength-based actions, each and every mental note, each and every persuasive pressure.

Using a flick as the coup de grace is just a matter of formality. It was just the appopriate action to take given the set-up and the situation.

[Spanky McFarland]

You can buy Flickmasters online from the following website:

http://www.leonpaul.com/

Personally, I find them to be too flexible, to the stage where it can have an effect on point control if you are hitting to body (the point wobbles alarmingly with motion).

I use standard Leon Paul maraging, which are flexible enough to flick, but stiff enough to keep in control during disengages and thrusts. Unfortunately, I seem to have major intermittent off-target light problems with the tips on these blades. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

[epeefencer74]

Originally posted by Spanky McFarland
You can buy Flickmasters online from the following website:

http://www.leonpaul.com/

Personally, I find them to be too flexible, to the stage where it can have an effect on point control if you are hitting to body (the point wobbles alarmingly with motion).

I use standard Leon Paul maraging, which are flexible enough to flick, but stiff enough to keep in control during disengages and thrusts. Unfortunately, I seem to have major intermittent off-target light problems with the tips on these blades. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

Nope you're not the only one. Have seen problems of this sort with our foil fencers using the above mentioned blade. Solution, change and rewire with german tips. May have to re-thread the foil.

[sombrero]

Hehe, me and my 2 cents worth again.

I think that too many people discount the flick as just a means to an end. However, i personally feel that it has added a whole new dimension to the game....... (the front and back are now valid targets and parries need to be strong enough to also counter the possible whip effect)

I personally think that FIE is making a big mistake trying to outlaw the flick.... no doubt they might be goaded on by manufacturing companies that probably see this as a business opportunity. Games and sports evolves...... the fencers of today are fast and atheletic because of this recognition of this evolution.

Flicks have also compensated for those fencing against opponents who often try to cover their front tagets by bending low or w their sword arms. Nowdays, such movements would expose the back to a possible flick attack making fencing a more tactical game. The increase amount of targets now also add for a variety of movements and attacks!

Also, the introduction of e flick has also allowed fencers a greater range of tactics and possibilities to contemplate. -- E flick range is shorter than the pt hit but tends to need less accuracy than a pt hit when executed correctly. Also, to block a flick u need to use a wide parry (exposing most of your target) while to counter a pt hit, a small shifting of the blade is the best solution

So my stand is that flicks are just techniques to be used just like disengages and stop hits. And a fencers who flicks excessively will do so to his detriment esp if he is severly lacking in other areas.

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

Originally posted by edew
You are probably very new to the sport. The great joy in the sport isn't to see a score come up. It is to see the culmination of a multitude of minute actions leading up to the resulting point. The jockeying for position, the mental battles on who has control over the footwork, the preparation of the hand and arm, the anticipation of the response. All those things make up the joy of fencing. The eventual score is just the manifestation of properly executing each and everyone one of those little nuances, each and everyone strength-based actions, each and every mental note, each and every persuasive pressure.

You pretty much echoed what I said. I told him that caring only for the score to come up was superficial, and then you repeat it as if I'M the one who only cares for making the light flash. You're barking up the wrong tree. Next.

[ReverseLunge]

bebop, did you know that they used to put ink or chalk on the tips of dry foils in order to prove that the point did hit? Thats why the fencing unforn is white. Thats the same idea as electrical. A flick actually isn't easy to land. It takes a lot of skill. There is a difference between sport fencing and fantasy dueling.

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

Originally posted by ReverseLunge
bebop, did you know that they used to put ink or chalk on the tips of dry foils in order to prove that the point did hit?

I didn't know they used chalk. Thanks.

Thats why the fencing unforn is white. Thats the same idea as electrical. A flick actually isn't easy to land. It takes a lot of skill.

Again, that's not what I'm talking about. Of course the electrical scoring system is great. But theres a fine line between using it as an indication that you're fencing well and having be a mental addiction or a substitute to focusing on the process.

By the way, I have not touched the subject of flicks ONCE, so leave me alone about it.

There is a difference between sport fencing and fantasy dueling.

Thanks again.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Bebop and Rocksteady

By the way, I have not touched the subject of flicks ONCE, so leave me alone about it.

That is not quite true. You did indeed talk about flicks on this thread....

Originally posted by Bebop and Rocksteady
I was implying that caring only for making the light go off is superficial, not flicking.

Geez people, read what he posts.

[Psi Shadowdark]

im not big on flicks, but honestly if i saw the oppritunity.... id take it

[MikeHarm]

Maybe its just me but.. weren't all of those areas open to angulated attacks anyways before the flick?

Originally posted by sombrero
Hehe, me and my 2 cents worth again.

I think that too many people discount the flick as just a means to an end. However, i personally feel that it has added a whole new dimension to the game....... (the front and back are now valid targets and parries need to be strong enough to also counter the possible whip effect)

I personally think that FIE is making a big mistake trying to outlaw the flick.... no doubt they might be goaded on by manufacturing companies that probably see this as a business opportunity. Games and sports evolves...... the fencers of today are fast and atheletic because of this recognition of this evolution.

Flicks have also compensated for those fencing against opponents who often try to cover their front tagets by bending low or w their sword arms. Nowdays, such movements would expose the back to a possible flick attack making fencing a more tactical game. The increase amount of targets now also add for a variety of movements and attacks!

Also, the introduction of e flick has also allowed fencers a greater range of tactics and possibilities to contemplate. -- E flick range is shorter than the pt hit but tends to need less accuracy than a pt hit when executed correctly. Also, to block a flick u need to use a wide parry (exposing most of your target) while to counter a pt hit, a small shifting of the blade is the best solution

So my stand is that flicks are just techniques to be used just like disengages and stop hits. And a fencers who flicks excessively will do so to his detriment esp if he is severly lacking in other areas.

[ReverseLunge]

Well flicking gives more angulation to the angulation. So you can angulate form a close distance.

[MikeHarm]

You can angulate from a close distance anyways if your body and arms and such are positioned correctly. In fact a lof of the people I've done infighting against if they weren't flickers went for the prime or second angulated shots.

[135711]

Originally posted by achilleus
That is not quite true. You did indeed talk about flicks on this thread....



Geez people, read what he posts.

I've been looking at it, it's interesting, stuff, they guy is telling us something....what, we don't know. maybe he's a kid with a red and black headscarf looking for a fight, maybe he's a guy with a little kink, we don't know, we know this, he is ON the BOard!!!, 'nuf said.

Craig, I had an idea: instead of locking threads with like a heavy padlock, which is bad sha, could we seal it with a kiss, which is like, more positive chi'i?

[achilleus]

Originally posted by 135711
I've been looking at it, it's interesting, stuff, they guy is telling us something....what, we don't know.

I'm trying to tell people to practice their reading comprehension. B&R was 'criticized' by a couple of different who apparently didn't bother to read his post.

Perhaps rather than merely looking at the stuff, you should also try reading it.

Originally posted by 135711
maybe he's a kid with a red and black headscarf looking for a fight, maybe he's a guy with a little kink, we don't know, we know this, he is ON the BOard!!!, 'nuf said.

As I said above, try reading it, rather than reading in to it. After all, sometimes a cigar is just that.

[botmer]

actually, how do you parry a flick?

they've told me these (applied to foil, but must work with the 3 weapons)):

a) with a wide sixte
b) with a high sixte
c) with a sort of quinte, sabre-like (arm goes up, weapon tip ends pointing to the ceiling, you catch the tip of the flicker's weapon with your forte or with the guard)

of these I have stopped a few flicks with option c, once they told me b was the best but so far when trying it their tips end up touching me anyway, I cant practice flick parying too much so I have to learn during the bout or worse, in competition. I don't flick but I want to know how to deal with it.

Other methods they've told me:
a) close in distance so the flick doesn't hit you
b) jump back enough to avoid it
c) do a quick passata

once again I havent been able to practice these to see which works better
when i get to bout with flickers it's too fast to react, eg for a qucik passata, their tip already touched me

so you guys who flick, how do you parry a flick?

[ReverseLunge]

You can buy Flickmasters online from the following website:

http://www.leonpaul.com/

Personally, I find them to be too flexible, to the stage where it can have an effect on point control if you are hitting to body (the point wobbles alarmingly with motion).

I'm very interested in the Flickmasters. Could you tell me how well they flick? Were you able to do some amazing flicks? Do these blades break easy?

thanks

[Psi Shadowdark]

i think the FM holds up well, i hear many like to replace the tip though

[Spanky McFarland]

The Flickmasters are very flexible, and do make flicking much easier than it would otherwise be. However, if you are learning to flick, it would probably be better to do so with a normal blade, as this will force you to employ exactly the right distance, timing and technique to land your hit. A flickmaster won't allow a bad fencer to flick well, but it will give an advantage to those who can wield their weapon with some skill.

As to whether or not they break easily, they are maraging blades, so stand well to abuse.

[Mr_Foilist]

Originally posted by botmer
so you guys who flick, how do you parry a flick?

Good distance is always the best first line of defense. This pretty much applies to everything in fencing but works especially well with flicks.

With a straight out point attack, it's easy to lean forward a bit, if you fall a little too short, and still get the touch without the ref. seeing it as a remise. But, with a flick, if you juke your body, causing the flicker to think you're stopping where you juke, and then step back and let the flick fall short, any kind of continuation of the attack from the flicker can be seen clearly as a remise, providing that he finishes the flick when you stop and doesn't see your juke as just that and make the correct change in lunging distance. If done correctly 1) the flick falls short 2) you attack and 3) the flicker extends further and remises. So, if you pull distance properly and draw the flick, letting it fall short, then attack, the action should be called "attack no-attack yes-and then a remise" and you should get the point, not the flicker.

What if the flicker does see the juke for what it is? Well, that's when you take the high six. You can actually do this successfully while still in the position of a deep retreat (Or a lunge if the flicker ripostes your attack with a flick) or while in normal en garde stance. The closer you are to your oponent, the higher the six has to be, generally. You can then riposte to the chest, inside or outside flank or turn your wrist (palm facing out) and drop your point to flick an underhand riposte to flank. Whatever you're more comfortable with or whatever works in a given situation.

Or, you could step in with your blade already in six to take the flick and then do a close riposte to your oponent's low-line. Be careful here, though. A good flicker will see what you're doing and possibly change lines and hit you in your low-line instead. This is a situation where good practice in in-fighting comes in handy.

Good luck.

[MikeHarm]

If you spank the blade at the end of your parry or beat it, it takes the forward energy out of the blade that it needs to arc to the target causing the flick attack to land flat allowing you successfully parry and riposte with a nice one light action. It works a lot better than a wide parry because a good flicker can wrap their blade right around your parry to the target.

Dodging has been unreliable for me, though I think the evasive stuff will work better as my footwork ability improves.

Originally posted by botmer
actually, how do you parry a flick?

they've told me these (applied to foil, but must work with the 3 weapons)):

a) with a wide sixte
b) with a high sixte
c) with a sort of quinte, sabre-like (arm goes up, weapon tip ends pointing to the ceiling, you catch the tip of the flicker's weapon with your forte or with the guard)

of these I have stopped a few flicks with option c, once they told me b was the best but so far when trying it their tips end up touching me anyway, I cant practice flick parying too much so I have to learn during the bout or worse, in competition. I don't flick but I want to know how to deal with it.

Other methods they've told me:
a) close in distance so the flick doesn't hit you
b) jump back enough to avoid it
c) do a quick passata

once again I havent been able to practice these to see which works better
when i get to bout with flickers it's too fast to react, eg for a qucik passata, their tip already touched me

so you guys who flick, how do you parry a flick?