Economy vs. Fencing

[Redblade]

Are elements of the recession causing you to reduce your club fencing activities, equipment purchases and/or competition plans?

[fdad]

Are elements of the recession causing you to reduce your club fencing activities, equipment purchases and/or competition plans?

It is having a greater impact on decisions about travelling to events with less than 100% promotion to DE and/or with a reputation for small pools.

[Phrogger]

A quick anecdote: I spoke to a club owner recently about the economy and asked if he had seen any change in his membership. He said it had actually INCREASED, and if anything the economy had helped his club because he had students quitting more expensive sports (like club soccer) to take up fencing.

However, I think that this should be chalked up to an isolated case, based on this club's clever market positioning and location to nearby prep-schools. Our little club is made up of lower-economic tier type fencers but fortunately we haven't seen any cutbacks yet. I'd venture to guess that much depends on a club's constituency, but fencing is likely to take a hit just like everything else in this economy.

[Inquartata]

Poll is f*****.

Somehow.

I am sure of it.

[Craig]

However, I think that this should be chalked up to an isolated case, based on this club's clever market positioning and location to nearby prep-schools.

It is a case that is repeating itself across a number of clubs in the US. Part of it is the marketing plan (and demographic targeting) for the various clubs. I've heard the same thing from enough clubs in different regions that I would not call it an isolated case.

Craig

[Phrogger]

It is a case that is repeating itself across a number of clubs in the US. Part of it is the marketing plan (and demographic targeting) for the various clubs. I've heard the same thing from enough clubs in different regions that I would not call it an isolated case.

Craig

I hope you're right. I guess we'll see!

[alvin]

because he had students quitting more expensive sports (like club soccer) to take up fencing.

I'm having a really hard time seeing how soccer is more expensive that fencing?!?!?!

[catwood1]

I'm having a really hard time seeing how soccer is more expensive that fencing?!?!?!

Have you been a part of a traveling club soccer program?

[alvin]

Have you been a part of a traveling club soccer program?

No, but I can guess at what you mean... it's not the cost of the gear, it's the cost of travel and tournament fees. Sort of like the cost of travel and tournament fees for those that travel to keep up their point standings; or those that travel as part of a school team. ok, serious competition always costs more.

I don't see fencing benefiting at all from the weak economy. It's too expensive. You have to belong to a special club; you have to take a lot of lessons before you even begin to feel like you know what you're doing; and if you're competitive enough to want to move beyond club tournaments, the gear costs a lot compared to the mainstream sports.

I also don't think it will be seriously hurt. It's a minority sport with a passionate core who will continue to participate, although travel is likely to be reduced and more people will 'make do' with the gear they've got. Bad time to be forcing new gear on folks due to rule changes.

[catwood1]

No, but I can guess at what you mean... it's not the cost of the gear, it's the cost of travel and tournament fees. Sort of like the cost of travel and tournament fees for those that travel to keep up their point standings; or those that travel as part of a school team. ok, serious competition always costs more.

I don't see fencing benefiting at all from the weak economy. It's too expensive. You have to belong to a special club; you have to take a lot of lessons before you even begin to feel like you know what you're doing; and if you're competitive enough to want to move beyond club tournaments, the gear costs a lot compared to the mainstream sports.

I also don't think it will be seriously hurt. It's a minority sport with a passionate core who will continue to participate, although travel is likely to be reduced and more people will 'make do' with the gear they've got. Bad time to be forcing new gear on folks due to rule changes.

While gear is pretty expensive compared to basketball or soccer, look at the other sports.

Baseball: A highschool baseball player will spend a couple hundred on a bat easy. Gloves are not quite as expensive, but still significant.
Football: Everything is very very expensive.
Lacrosse: Very expensive.
Wrestling: Ok, that ones pretty cheap...

You can get a full competition kit for fencing for between 175 or so and 500 depending on the weapon. Its not that much. Yes, when you want the good stuff the number multiplies, but you can do it cheap.

Its a valid point comparing club level soccer to competitive fencing. But, how many kids play traveling soccer, and how many kids fence NACs and are trying to make teams? I think there is a sigificant number who might leave club soccer and joing a fencing club. Even if its just for local events. The price difference here is quite large.

[alvin]

While gear is pretty expensive compared to basketball or soccer, look at the other sports.

Baseball: A highschool baseball player will spend a couple hundred on a bat easy. Gloves are not quite as expensive, but still significant.
Football: Everything is very very expensive.
Lacrosse: Very expensive.
Wrestling: Ok, that ones pretty cheap...

Yikes! I don't much keep up with other sports and I should have figured that new tech would work its way into things like bats, that would drive the price up real quick. OTOH, an expensive bat like that would be comparable to a top-line FIE blade, in the realm of deep pockets and serious competitors.

You can get a full competition kit for fencing for between 175 or so and 500 depending on the weapon. Its not that much. Yes, when you want the good stuff the number multiplies, but you can do it cheap.

Just for the sake of argument, what is the least one can spend to be able to compete in the least expensive weapon? I priced the cheapest epee equipment from Absolute:


epees (2).........$88
bodycords (2).....$24
mask..............$45
jacket............$32
breeches..........$32
plastron..........$15
glove.............$10
.................$246

Whether that's cheap or not depends on individual circumstance, of course. But for an "average" kid who just wants to play sports, I think it gets real pricey real quick -- compared to mainstream sports, very esp. basketball and soccer.

Its a valid point comparing club level soccer to competitive fencing. But, how many kids play traveling soccer, and how many kids fence NACs and are trying to make teams? I think there is a sigificant number who might leave club soccer and joing a fencing club. Even if its just for local events. The price difference here is quite large.

I think it would be very hard to get to a real apples-to-apples comparison. Yes, football equipment is very expensive, prohibitively so if the individual player has to pay for his own kit. But I would assume that most little league and school players are going to use equipment owned by the club or school, bringing the cost to a reasonable level.

But fencing you can't have a pick-up 'game' of fencing in your backyard with the other kids in the neighborhood. That will always limit it's appeal.

I think people tend to be drawn to sports that feel "right" to them. This is esp. true with fencing -- because the barriers to entry are higher than the mainstream sports people have to work harder to get "in", so there's a higher level of dedication right at the start.

But a weak economy isn't going to make fencing easier to get into, in my opinion.

[LordShout]

But fencing you can't have a pick-up 'game' of fencing in your backyard with the other kids in the neighborhood. That will always limit it's appeal.

Bah, I've fenced my friends in the street where I used to play rollerhockey, in front of the lawn I played pickup football/baseball on. It's just a matter of having enough people that live within "hey you guyssss" distance that fence.

[alvin]

Bah, I've fenced my friends in the street where I used to play rollerhockey, in front of the lawn I played pickup football/baseball on. It's just a matter of having enough people that live within "hey you guyssss" distance that fence.

And I've fenced in my yard with my son, because there isn't enough room inside the house for it. But that's an unusual situation. In an "average" neighborhood, how many fencers live within shouting distance?

If you were the only kid in your neighborhood that played, for example, lacrosse, chances are you'd have a spare stick lying around and you could lend it to one of the guys to play catch with. Those basics can be learned pretty quick.

But if you were the only fencer in your neighborhood, would you be willing to lend a spare sword to a neighborhood kids just to play around?

[teacup]

Have you been a part of a traveling club soccer program?

Do soccer club team members travel alone or each with a parent/coach chaperone as fencers do or travel as a team? Most fencers are unable to arrange team travel due to different dates for each weapon/gender.

Do soccer clubs pay for individual coaches to attend out of state events? Sending private coaches can add substantially to expenses.

At what age does international travel start for soccer clubs? Fencers may start traveling to Europe for the weekend as cadets.

Many sports have expensive equipment, even competitive swimsuits are expensive but many sports, such as swimming, have more regional high level competitions than is available to fencers.

Besides equipment, club fees, private coaching, classes, camps, individual travel, coach/chaperone travel expenses, the distances between strong events makes fencing an expensive sport.

Sports, in fact involvement with any activity at a high level, can be expense. If possible please continue this comparison of sports such as club soccer vs fencing. It is very helpful to get an idea of what other sports cost and how they are structured.

[fencerina dad]

My child does travel soccer and travels for fencing. Total annual fencing costs blow away the total soccer costs. It mainly has to do with two things. Travel (flight, hotel, meals, registration fees,coaching etc.) and our club's fees.

[Hokiiaidoka]

I think there are some things in a recession that could be used to the advantage of a fencing club. I teach fencing classes in the summer to elementary school - adult. It is a one time clinic, since I am a college student and my town has no other opportunities to fence. At any rate, I have done fairly well advertising a "local adventure" type theory. Essentially, in the recession we are going to be seeing a lot of people refusing to spend money to travel, so I offer them a local fun alternative. You get to have an adventure, learn something new, and not break the bank. Now, this is for lower level fencers. I don't think there is anyway around the huge costs of traveling to tournaments....that cost has always been too large for me and I have been fencing for about 7 years....

[catwood1]

I think a huge factor here is what level of competitiveness you are looking at. Fencing on the national / internation scene is FANTASTICALLY expensive. I'm sure more so than *most* club soccer teams. However, if you're looking at the 1 lesson a week, 1 local event per month kid, its very different.

And I've heard of soccer teams costing alot, and others that aren't that bad. Like everything else in the world: it depends.

[teacup]

The competitive fencing season for juniors and cadets lasts from September to July.

Other sports may have shorter seasons which could drastically reduce expenses.

[fencefoilepee]

I am a casualty of the economy. With the rates of my club being raised each year, this year proved to be too much. I will rejoin when the economy allows me to.

[teacup]

I think a huge factor here is what level of competitiveness you are looking at. Fencing on the national / internation scene is FANTASTICALLY expensive. I'm sure more so than *most* club soccer teams. However, if you're looking at the 1 lesson a week, 1 local event per month kid, its very different.

And I've heard of soccer teams costing alot, and others that aren't that bad. Like everything else in the world: it depends.

I agree there are many variables. (If you are a surfer in Kansas, your travel expenses are going to be more than a surfer in Southern California. )

There will always be more expensive sports, equestrian for example or cheaper sports such as swimming, but I believe, especially for those under 18, it costs more to reach a similar high level of competitiveness in fencing, than team and other popular US sports, such as baseball, soccer, volleyball, etc.

For most people, compared to many but not all sports, fencing competitively is expensive.