Pre-competition insomnia

[veeco]

Hi guys,

I am having a major case of pre-competition insomnia. That should be a good sign, I have my first tournament of the season coming up tomorrow (rather in a few hours) and I can't get any sleep.

Quite oddly enough, that doesn't seem to impact my results. On the other hand, I have found that the best competition results I have had in the past where when I had gotten 5-4 hours of sleep before the tournament.

Anyone can relate? Are there people out there who need to sleep like babies before their competitions?

Are there others who don't sleep at all?

I remember a friend of mine who was one of the top junior fencers in sabre in France, the night before the individual national championships he was out until the wee hours of the morning. We ended up staying in the hotel room and talking all night. I did not mind I was not fencing in that event.

The very next day, I saw him get up for pools with a rather pale face. He completely missed his round of pools and was able to get through to the first round of DE by indicators only. If I remember he was the last one to be qualified for DE. That day he made it all the way until the top 8.

I don't know if being barely eliminated woke him up or if he just needed time to wake up, but he fenced great all day long after that.

On the same hand, I have noticed that my best results in competitions I have had when I was able to overcome a very close bout sometime in the DE. That close bout usually ends up with one minute, priority is given, and then I score the final touch. If I can do that, then I know I will do well. Winning by such a small margin gives me that extra adrenalin rush that gets me going for the rest of the tournament. Kind of a risky scheme, but it seems to work (as long as I don't loose the close bout )

Anyone does this too?

[JEC]

Veeco,

Melatonin is a food supplement and a protein. It is broken down into aminoacids in the stomach. One of them is tryptophan, which then is available in the bloodstream to make Melatonin in the brain. There are several clinical studies showing that healthy adults that take 3-6mg of this supplement about 15-30 minutes before going to bed have a shorter sleep latency. A lot of people use it to induce sleep and it is not addictive like benzodiazepines (Valium, Ativan, etc). It only makes you sleepier. Unlike some of the benzodiazepines, it would not give you a hangover the next morning, but also the effect only last a few hours. So, you may wake up earlier, but feeling rested as compared to benzos. It is not a banned substance and it does not require a prescription. Now, high levels of pre-competition anxiety would decrease performance, some amount will enhance performance.

How well you did in your competition?

[135711]

dont' take any pills they'll throw you out for doping.

warm bath - not hot, with 1 cup of epson salts, stretch very slowly and massage your legs, and drink a cup of warm not hot milk. do everything slowly. read something boring, but don't try to focus on it, set your alarm clock 1 hour earlier really loud, and fall asleep. also for the adventurous, try self hypnosis, biofeedback. more later. good luck veeco, opps, forgot, by morning you'll be so relaxed you'll have to buzz yourself awake, don't do anything 'extra' in the coffe thing, colder than normal shower, and stretch more, then go to the competition, warm up with a friend and zap them, tell us how you did.

[edew]

Last year, prior to the Bay Cup foil at Stanford, our neighbor's dog barked all night (because the owner went out for the evening). It barked and yipped until god-knows-when. Another neighbor was screaming and *****ing and making claims of killing the dog. I went over to the neighbor's apartment and checked on the dog. It was outside and just wanted company. I really wanted to just pick up the dog and bring it home. But I wasn't sure when the owner would get back.

I was awake until around 4:30AM. Didn't sleep well at all (obviously) and finished 8th or 9th overall. Mightily pissed.

So, I rather not have any sort of insomnia.

Another thing that bugs me a lot is traveling to the East Coast and fencing there. First, there's the 3-hour time change. Then, it's not being able to sleep earlier than usual. Then, it's the 7:00AM check-in close times. Triple bogey.

How many people showed up to CFA for the epee?

[veeco]

Well, I ended up getting my 4-5 hours of sleep, and I did not do that bad, although it could have been better.

I ended up fencing someone who used to be my nemesis a year back. I thought I had figured him out but he was just fencing too well yesterday. No one managed to even scare him of all day, I think. He was just in one of these days where everything works.

30 people showed up at CFA for the Open Men's Epee, I don't know how much were there for the Cat 2.

Really, I think that as far as I am concerned, I don't need too much sleep and I fence better when I have had 4-5 hours of sleep as opposed to a full 8 hours. But thanks for the suggestions. I don't think I will try melatonin, but I have used the old warm milk trick when I was in dire need of sleep but could seem to get to sleep.

[edew]

Originally posted by veeco
Well, I ended up getting my 4-5 hours of sleep, and I did not do that bad, although it could have been better.

I ended up fencing someone who used to be my nemesis a year back. I thought I had figured him out but he was just fencing too well yesterday. No one managed to even scare him of all day, I think. He was just in one of these days where everything works.

30 people showed up at CFA for the Open Men's Epee, I don't know how much were there for the Cat 2.

Really, I think that as far as I am concerned, I don't need too much sleep and I fence better when I have had 4-5 hours of sleep as opposed to a full 8 hours. But thanks for the suggestions. I don't think I will try melatonin, but I have used the old warm milk trick when I was in dire need of sleep but could seem to get to sleep.

Let's see...Gyorgy Ordody? Eric Hansen? Nat Burke? Richard King? Ed Hon?

You know what's really amazing, with 30 competitors at CFA and 30 at HFC for the foil, is that none of the junior fencers or cadet fencers showed up, being that they're all at Louisville wasting time and money. If they didn't go to Louisville, heck, we easily could have another ten fencers: Kirk-Gordon, DiNapoli, Lepold, Hsu, Sulat, Zeitlin (maybe he's out of the area), Kershaw, Murugin, and one or two others. For epee, you'd have Lee, Bittner, Scher (if he wasn't there already), and several other junior epeeists.

Thank gawd for that, otherwise, if I had fenced, I wouldn't have been able to break top-16. :-)

[veeco]

Originally posted by edew
Let's see...Gyorgy Ordody? Eric Hansen? Nat Burke? Richard King? Ed Hon?

None of the above. Gyorgy took 2nd.

You know what's really amazing, with 30 competitors at CFA and 30 at HFC for the foil, is that none of the junior fencers or cadet fencers showed up, being that they're all at Louisville wasting time and money. If they didn't go to Louisville, heck, we easily could have another ten fencers: Kirk-Gordon, DiNapoli, Lepold, Hsu, Sulat, Zeitlin (maybe he's out of the area), Kershaw, Murugin, and one or two others. For epee, you'd have Lee, Bittner, Scher (if he wasn't there already), and several other junior epeeists.

Thank gawd for that, otherwise, if I had fenced, I wouldn't have been able to break top-16. :-)

Eric and Nat weren't there, neither Scott, nor Brian. overall there were very few if none at all of the people from Davis/Sac area. Some veterans were not present because of the competition that was the day before, which must have tired them. But there were still 30 people... That's pretty good indication for the next Bay Cup, which is usually the biggest one. I think we might break into the low fifties.

[135711]

warm milk thing: the milk proteins also break down and are more easily digested and the lactose helps put you to sleep. remember when you were a baby and your mom heated up the milk bottle for you? that's the theory. today however, the lazy young slobs don't heat up the bottles for their babies.

[135711]

its' sorta llike cafe au lait, or a latte, where it's mostly hot milk and a little coffee.

i ran 7 miles the other day. i couldn't believe it. i'm not giving up fencing. i am so pissed off now, if i didn't have the freakin board i wouldve gone down the block and smacked a few people. i have to move all the way across the country to fence again, after speaking on the telephone with my old teacher, i know at least there are people with class and that i'll always be welcome on my old turf. i've done a lot of thinking. when i get back, i'm going back to university for my phd in nutrition.

[JEC]

FYI: Lactose is a protein relatively rich in tryptophan. Melatonin is just another protein. Both are decomposed into aminoacids.

[Inquartata]

One of the best tournaments I ever had, my head hadn't even touched a pillow in over 24 hours.

One of the WORST tournaments I ever had, my head hadn't touched a pillow in over 24 hours.

I suspect that sleep is not a primary consideration in fencing well. Nice to have, but not essential.

I think the worst obstacle to sleep that one has to overcome is the idea that one HAS to get to sleep. That will almost guarantee that you will lie there wide awake all night....

[Saber-Psycho]

Originally posted by 135711
"the lazy young slobs don't heat up the bottles for their babies."

Well, that's just not very nice and what the hell does that have to do with insomnia?

When I fence in competitions, I have to get 6 hours of sleep or I disintegrate.
For performance I do fine unless there's a referee shortage or something like that and I have to wait and wait and wait then I get cold after I warm up and I get really, really tired.

Like several of you said I too get woken up when I almost lose a bout, however when I actually lose that bout it tends to make me more tired.

[edew]

Originally posted by veeco
None of the above. Gyorgy took 2nd.



Eric and Nat weren't there, neither Scott, nor Brian. overall there were very few if none at all of the people from Davis/Sac area. Some veterans were not present because of the competition that was the day before, which must have tired them. But there were still 30 people... That's pretty good indication for the next Bay Cup, which is usually the biggest one. I think we might break into the low fifties.

That's a scary thought. I hope Connie is ready for it. 50 fencers and need to get it done by 5PM is not a happy thought. Thank gawd we moved the women's epee out to another day. Still, we'll have the Youth-12 boys foil and Youth-12 girls foil in that tournament. They boys foil may have 45 fencers or more, and the girls' foil may have 20. I have no idea how that will be completed by 5PM, unless she manages to move it to Cubberly or somewhere else. We have a month to prepare. Ugh.

Let me guess: Brian Gonzales.

[veeco]

Originally posted by edew
Let me guess: Brian Gonzales.

Nope! Brian went out in the first round so I did not have to worry about him this time!

[Peach]

I don't try to get a good night's sleep before a competition, though as I have more tournaments under my belt it has gotten easier. I do try to get a good night's sleep the night before that, which seems to make far more difference.

[Kiwifencer]

My coach always said it was the night before the night before that counted. And, of course he was right. Find it important to have decent sleep in nights leading up to competition, rather than having to have so many hours the night before.

Then the night before it was more about relaxing and taking mind off the impending comp, by talking, relaxing, watching movies, even fixing fencing gear - that however was a mark of desparation - I relaxed watching all others frantically trying to fix gear after failing initial checks..

[D'Artagnan1673]

I too have a hard time sleeping prior to tournaments simply because I know that I must go to sleep. I generally end up getting up and turning on a fencing movie to help myself get into the mindset.

I have found that sleep or lack thereof really does not affect my performance once I start moving. I agree with Vecco in that if I win a very close bout, I will have the drive in me to push furthur.

[135711]

the baby bottle thing is like a small quip, not to be taken too seriously. i write because i'm complaining......right before i got here to the board, i ran about 2 miles, and a young girl kept trying to get me hit by a car. i do a lot of thinking while i run...i'm worried about the plight of the waihine's, more on that in a water cooler thread.

about the sleep thing: some competitions i didn't care about, and i got good sleep and fenced better, some competitions i cared about too much or thought about too much and had more anxiety and didn't sleep well.

drawing from some experience in karate, when i tested for a belt for example, it was very anxiety producing, so my strategy was to train very hard for a long time, and about a week before testing, i'd relax a bit, and 3 days before the test, i'd take a massage. then do nothing for 2 days, then test and i could really put alot into it. full form, no tension or strains. compared to other students whom i trained with in the past, i got news that one of them is having a hip replacement, i think it's because he didn't know how to relax.

[mfp]

Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673
I agree with Vecco in that if I win a very close bout, I will have the drive in me to push furthur.

The drive to push "furthur"?

Furthur was Ken Kesey and the Merry Prankster's psychedelic bus which they used for their famous 1960s cross-country "trip" while experimenting with LSD and other substances. Perhaps D'Arts' local competitions should consider screening for banned substances.



As for Melatonin, while it's "natural", not banned, doesn't require a prescription and clinical studies have shown its effectiveness in inducing sleep, to be fully informed you should also know that there have been no comprehensive clinical studies evaluting its effects long term (if any). Using Melatonin for occasional pre-competition insomnia is one thing, but frequent and/or continual use might have consequences that we don't know about.

[edew]

Originally posted by veeco
Nope! Brian went out in the first round so I did not have to worry about him this time!

Since I just got the results, Keith!

Looks like a relatively strong tournament. Interesting to see a number of former GGFC fencers now fencing for EBFG. Maybe I should join them, too!

The C2ME missed being a C2 event by just three fencers. Someone coulda gotten his C02 if they had some more bodies.