question on electric equipment

[Mr. Wizard]

while i was doing research 4 which weapon i wanted to pick, i stumbled across a site, i cant remember which one, but it said that in the early days of electric sabre fencing, there was a machine that they used to detect parrys. where can i find out more about this machine?

[Purple Fencer]

while i was doing research 4 which weapon i wanted to pick, i stumbled across a site, i cant remember which one, but it said that in the early days of electric sabre fencing, there was a machine that they used to detect parrys. where can i find out more about this machine?

I think you're referring to the capteur. it wasn't a machine....just a ball bearing on a spring that connected to a socket in the guard (I still have the socket on my sabres).

It was designed to sense if the hit was direct to target or if it had actually been parried, and the contact with the lame was due to a whipover. They didn't work overly well, nor did they really last.

The stiffening of teh blades in 2000 (on a gabarit a sabre blade is actually allowed LESS deflection than an epee blade!) was designed to serve muchteh same purpose...to cut down on whipovers, and modern boxes can sense a whipover, making the capteur to the dustbin of history.

[KD5MDK]

That has nothing to do with what a capteur did. It was used to determine if the hit was delivered with enough force.

[Hauptman]

You're both right, to a point. The idea being that if the hit was caused by whipover then it was less likely that the weapon was in motion in a way that would activate the capteur, and set off a light.

At least that's how I remember it.

[Goldgar]

You're both right, to a point. The idea being that if the hit was caused by whipover then it was less likely that the weapon was in motion in a way that would activate the capteur, and set off a light.

At least that's how I remember it.

I believe you're mistaken. The capteur was a rudimentary accelerometer, measuring the shock of the blow (which still didn't have to be much). It was the programming of the scoring box that would attempt, by comparing the timing of the signals (from capteur, opponent's blade, and lamé), to determine whether the touch arrived through the parry, or by whipover, or after a proper beat or parry.

I'm not up on the latest scoring-box programming for sabre, but doesn't the scoring box still do this, though without the capteur? I thought -- and could be mistaken -- that there's a hit-no hit-hit sequence based on elapsed time from blade contact to to target.

[jjefferies]

and modern boxes can sense a whipover, making the capteur to the dustbin of history.

Would you care to further explain how a box can detect a whipover? The only thing I can imagine is a timing difference: hit blade, hit lame. Or hit blade and while still in contact hit lame.

[Mr. Wizard]

ok, i know they were very unreliable, but would i be able to get a capteur anyways? i just want one out of collector's curiosity, i dont plan on using it officially

[Purple Fencer]

Would you care to further explain how a box can detect a whipover? The only thing I can imagine is a timing difference: hit blade, hit lame. Or hit blade and while still in contact hit lame.

That's generally my understanding.

[Kettch]

Blade contact, < 5ms delay , lame contact : touch
Blade contact, between 5 and 15ms delay, lame contact: no touch
Blade contact, >15ms delay, lame contact: touch

these time values correspond to:

Malparry: touch
Whipover: no touch
Beat attack: touch

(not sure if those timings are exactly right, but they are in the ballpark)




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[SJCFU#2]

ok, i know they were very unreliable, but would i be able to get a capteur anyways? i just want one out of collector's curiosity, i dont plan on using it officially

I believe that Uhlmann still lists them (click here). Whether or not they still have any in stock is another question.

You might also consider asking Leon Paul if they still have any lying about. IIRC unlike the Uhlmann captuer, which is sealed at the factory, you can open up a LP captuer for adjustment (and to see how it is supposed to work).

[SJCFU#2]

Blade contact, < 5ms delay , lame contact : touch
Blade contact, between 5 and 15ms delay, lame contact: no touch
Blade contact, >15ms delay, lame contact: touch

these time values correspond to:

Malparry: touch
Whipover: no touch
Beat attack: touch

(not sure if those timings are exactly right, but they are in the ballpark)

Pretty close (in fact those may have once been the correct numbers however the FIE likes to tweak them from time to time).

The current rule (as stated in appendix B to the Material Rules) states:

If the contact between the blade and the opponent’s target takes place ‘through the blade’, the apparatus:

— will register the hit between 0 and 4 ms (+ 1 ms);

— will prevent the hit being registered between 4 and 15 ms (+ 5 ms), on condition that the contact between the two blades is not interrupted more than a maximum of 10 times in the interval.

[Kettch]

Connection interrupted more than 10 times in 11ms sounds fairly unlikely. I wonder why it is specified.