Which safety rules should be strict?

[alvin]

So if there is "no wiggle room on safety", does that mean that all the safety rules should be rigourously enforced all the time? Mostly I do see this done, but the 'exposed skin' rule seem to be variable. A fencer is supposed to have no exposed skin showing when at en garde, and this applies to the overlap between the bottom of the knickers and the top of the socks. Yet I have sometimes seen fencers allowed to fence wearing only ankle-high socks. It seems silly to object, since a thin layer of cotton is hardly any protection at all. And in foil and saber, since the legs aren't target, maybe it's ok to let it slide.

I hate to see fencers disallowed from fencing over something that seems to be pretty minor. As a referee I've not yet had to make that call, but I think I would lean towards not allowing it. As a fencer, I've faced oppoents with bare legs, but haven't made an issue of it with the ref; should I?

[erooMynohtnA]

I don't care what anyone says, socks are not a safety issue anymore than the uniform being white.

You're fine to ignore it.

[catwood1]

Socks, eh, I think socks are a safety thing.

If someone in competition is fencing with normal socks, I won't let them fence. If their fencing socks keep falling down an inch or 2, its not the end of the world.

I can't really think of any other safety rule that can/should be ignored.

[mrbiggs]

The overlap between jacket and knickers rule is given quite a bit of leeway so long as there's no skin exposed.

[noodle]

i may or may not see all infractions, but i'll card anything i see with respect to safety issues.

[catwood1]

The overlap between jacket and knickers rule is given quite a bit of leeway so long as there's no skin exposed.

True it IS given leeway. I don't think it should be though...

[whtouche]

Just remember to punch-test your mask after every bout.

[erooMynohtnA]

Just remember to punch-test your mask after every bout.

Are you crazy? And risk your life by not punching after every touch?

[KD5MDK]

The overlap between jacket and knickers rule is given quite a bit of leeway so long as there's no skin exposed.

Try that with George K around.

[CvilleFencer]

Apply common sense. If the socks come down a bit, unless you are being observed (I know I know, but you also know its true), not a big deal. Ask them to pull them up after the next on guard. I actually had a scrub newbie ref (not that I'm still bitter or anything) call a halt in a tied up bout as I was scoring a one light touch because he noticed my sock had slipped a bit after a hard exchange that went back and forth the length of the strip. I came damn close to getting a black for choking the life out of the referee...

But I digress... Plaston, mask, holes in kit, hard chest plate, kit that can catch a blade, something on the strip, etc. All of the safety rules should be rigorously enforced. With the possible exception of the socks falling down during an action. If it bugs a ref to the point that they feel the have to do something they should A: lighten up and B: ask the fencer to make them stay up at the next break, even if it involves tape. Examples of an overreaction are like the one given above, or maybe lets say getting on the PA at a NAC and bringing every bout in the room to a halt because you happen to see a fencer 10 strips away with his socks falling down...

[Purple Fencer]

Examples of an overreaction are like the one given above, or maybe lets say getting on the PA at a NAC and bringing every bout in the room to a halt because you happen to see a fencer 10 strips away with his socks falling down...

Please tell me that's a joke....although I'm betting it's not...

[fdad]

Please tell me that's a joke....although I'm betting it's not...

I am pretty sure this almost exact thing interrupted at least one of the awards ceremonies during JOs.

[Rockstar44]

Yes, socks are a safety thing.

The point of a weapon (and the edge) will stick to skin way better than it will stick to socks. Therefore, a hit on the skin is much more likely to tear the skin than if the hit is made on a sock. That's the reason that they made the rule in the first place. The sock isn't there for padding (although it does help a little), it's there to let the tip slide off.

Is it a huge deal? Probably not.

It most certainly is, however, a legitimate safety issue.

[Phincer]

Socks, eh, I think socks are a safety thing.

If someone in competition is fencing with normal socks, I won't let them fence. If their fencing socks keep falling down an inch or 2, its not the end of the world.

I can't really think of any other safety rule that can/should be ignored.

my bold.


Well, you don't ref any locals, college team or NCAA do you? My son's college team socks are Nike baseball socks or something like that, in the school colors. They are definately not fencing socks.

I was just at an RYC where many of the fencers were being reffed by highly rated USFA/FIE refs-they were wearing some pretty wild novelty socks and were never carded. Believe me, the BC table would have heard about it if there were cards being thrown.

Then you go on to say an inch or two of skin being exposed is okay.

I think you need to either be on the bus or off the bus.

[Coldfire]

I think that when Catwood said "normal socks" he was referring to socks that don't cover all of the leg, aka ankle socks, not socks that arent made specifically for fencing.

[Rockstar44]

I was just at an RYC where many of the fencers were being reffed by highly rated USFA/FIE refs-they were wearing some pretty wild novelty socks and were never carded.

Nothing wrong with that (in the US). It doesn't say they have to be "fencing" socks. They just have to be socks. Any sock will protect your skin to a degree. (See previous post)

[Phincer]

Nothing wrong with that (in the US). It doesn't say they have to be "fencing" socks. They just have to be socks. Any sock will protect your skin to a degree. (See previous post)

Exactly. And I think it is so cute to see what Y10s will come up with...

And Catwood should have said "short" or "ankle" socks if that's what he meant. But I stand by my skin exposure statement. There really isn't a reason why skin should be exposed. Even people with huge calves (like me) can find socks to cover and stay up.

[Greybeard]

I know at last year's NAC I had a bit of hip that kept getting exposed due to my um "increased target area" I had gained from my surgery and meds. After a couple of touches before he would bring us en guard he would ask me to "tuck it back in." After the bout he asked me to try and fix it. Tape worked. I then went to the "House of Portly fencers before nationals. If you ask me, that was good common sense reffing.

[Morale Officer]

Exactly. And I think it is so cute to see what Y10s will come up with...

And Catwood should have said "short" or "ankle" socks if that's what he meant. But I stand by my skin exposure statement. There really isn't a reason why skin should be exposed. Even people with huge calves (like me) can find socks to cover and stay up.

I'm still fond of my "Snow Camo" and my "Urban Camo" socks, although I wish I could find socks with skulls and crossbones to fit my huge calves...oh well! (I'm almost 30! lol!)

[Rockstar44]

I'm still fond of my "Snow Camo" and my "Urban Camo" socks...

Snow camo? Wouldn't they be white?