Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

remise · 09-19-2002, 04:56 PM

Since I am not a very tall epee fencer, I was told never to attack into a 'straight arm', that I am going to have to perfect something called 'taking the blade'. This, I was told, would remove the advantage of coming up against a larger opponent. At what time does one take the blade? How do you perfect this? I've tried it, and found it to be incredibly hard. Does it take a lot of time to perfect?

Peach · 09-19-2002, 05:49 PM

What you do is get a very thick glove and when your opponent rushes at you, you drop your weapon and seize your opponent's blade between your thumb and forefinger, grasping lightly but effectively and using your other fingers only as guides. Then haul like blazes and try to run away, shrieking madly and dangling your own loose weapon in such a fashion as to trip your opponent.

This is very difficult in electric fencing but with practice and the correct spin it is often very neatly executed by higher-ranked fencers.

--Delia

swordsen · 09-19-2002, 07:45 PM

You know, I have seen people do that. It is an interesting move but my coach never taught it to me. It must be an advanced move because it isn't taught at the level one course atthe Coach's College either. well, maybe someday.....

latenight · 09-19-2002, 08:35 PM

Corvus Rex · 09-19-2002, 08:45 PM

135711 · 09-19-2002, 10:54 PM

take the blade: circle the blade while pressing in towards your opponent. Generally, they don't advise this unless your fairly strong. But don't let it throw you too much, there's the leverage thing and also the element of sur-prise. Try it and see, i like using this it works nicely, but once you have success with it, you'll want to use it too much, try to avoid that.

Prise de Fer: also taking the blade; an engagement of the blades that forces the opponent's
weapon into a new line. See: bind, croise, envelopment, opposition.

DJ Apostrophe · 09-20-2002, 12:22 AM

Peach,
That is the most sarcastic thing i've ever seen come from you... I love it

Thanks for giving me some great amusement

... keep em coming.

sabreur · 09-20-2002, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peach
What you do is get a very thick glove and when your opponent rushes at you, you drop your weapon and seize your opponent's blade between your thumb and forefinger, grasping lightly but effectively and using your other fingers only as guides. Then haul like blazes and try to run away, shrieking madly and dangling your own loose weapon in such a fashion as to trip your opponent.

This is very difficult in electric fencing but with practice and the correct spin it is often very neatly executed by higher-ranked fencers.

--Delia

Delia,

You didn't mention the old samurai trick, often used by sabre fencers, of capturing the opponent's blade, as it is descending in a cut, between the palms of your hands.

Great when it works, but hurts when it doesn't.

Cheers, MR

damianip · 09-20-2002, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by remise
Since I am not a very tall epee fencer, I was told never to attack into a 'straight arm', that I am going to have to perfect something called 'taking the blade'. This, I was told, would remove the advantage of coming up against a larger opponent. At what time does one take the blade? How do you perfect this? I've tried it, and found it to be incredibly hard. Does it take a lot of time to perfect?

The best time to take an opponent's blade is when they are fencing somone else.

Quietly creep to the end of the strip and "take the blade" which is lying there unattended. Then find his or her bag and "take" the rest of the blades.

Repeat as necessary.

Soon, no one will be able to touch you.

Paolo

nahouw · 09-21-2002, 12:40 AM

Since you are short, you have to learn the short épée fencers bag of tricks -- I will help you, since I am also short.

1. keeping good distance and point control will get you many shots to the wrist/forearm -- practice these well and often. (very good footwork goes a long way -- make sure to always practice your footwork!!)

2. when going to the body -- take the blade -- never leave home without it (credit goes to American Express

<g>) You learn how to take the blade through trial and experience -- the more you practice this, the more succesful you are. But then again, you might come across opponents who are very good at deceiving your attempts to take, but then again, through the experience, you will learn the sentiment du fer.

3. if things aren't working, your last recourse is to pommel -- this advice, of course, assumes that you use a French grip and have the hand strength and skill to pommel -- by pommelling, you increase your reach by approximately 3", which translates in épée that you appear 6" taller than your opponent expects, so it disrupts their sense of distance, and even in an expected double-action on their part, you will wind up with one-light for yourself, if they don't know you are pomelling. But then again, if they are a smart opponent and recognize that you are pomelling, they will adjust their distance.

Don't listen to Peach -- she is a Sabre fencer and is giving her input to your épée question as a Sabre fencer would approach the problem

<g> heeheehee -- they are a different breed and see solutions differently, albiet very funny.

135711 · 09-22-2002, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by damianip
The best time to take an opponent's blade is when they are fencing somone else.

Quietly creep to the end of the strip and "take the blade" which is lying there unattended. Then find his or her bag and "take" the rest of the blades.

Repeat as necessary.

Soon, no one will be able to touch you.

Paolo

I knew someone very cute who played the same tricks on me, it was okay, i thought it was cute. by the way, the reason my other teacher screamed so much at me was not my fencing, he was totally upset that i stay with the first teacher for so long. i am totally upset, but it will get better. best of luck to cc, and may the other one lose all his hair.

remise · 09-23-2002, 11:11 AM

Thanks nahouw -

I have worked extensively on my footwork, and am now concentrating on point control. It's a lot harder than it looks. In taking the blade, though, I was wondering...there were times when I had control, and times when I lost control. I believe I lost control because I waited a second or so too long to attack, but I'm not sure.

135711 · 09-24-2002, 07:16 PM

point control.....now, i'm not picking on anyone, and i'm certainly not an expert, but i have to put my 2cents in, because i believe point control is the VITAL organ of fencing. maybe i'm wrong, but, it seems to me, that if you wobble or flob around but your point is pointing at a valid target and your wrist is strong and and you're totally focused on plopping the point on your opponent, you'll wind up winning. i think it comes from the elbow, you must push forward with your strengh and straighten out that elbow firmly to get the point into the target solidly.

dreadfoil · 09-28-2002, 06:36 PM

135711 is correct, however, darling, the best bind is in quarte, and never, never hold the blade for longer that just a second, or they'll disengage and get you right in the patuddie.

nahouw · 09-28-2002, 08:33 PM

Ah, remise, they are deceiving your attempt to take!! that is what I said was the next progression to learn sentiment du fer. That you recognize this means you are making great progress!!

You have to learn how to feel the blade, and feel your opponents reaction through the blade.

Maybe they are able to deceive your attempt to take because you telegraph it; maybe it is because you are taking with too much pressure (and holding too long), so that when they deceive, your blade continues that way without their resistance to hold you in line; maybe it is because your footwork is not coordinated with your handwork, or maybe it is because you don't yet have the sentiment du fer to recognize their deceive and take the opposite parry. Of course, it can also mean that your arm is not extended fully and you are not finishing strong.

Keep practicing it, and you will eventually get it (trust me -- it will eventually come with practice -- that is the only way).

For an example to explain this: say you take the blade in 4, but as you continue, you feel it is not there -- that means they deceived (i.e.disengaged) and they are now in 6. you need to re-take the blade in 6, and you are good to go!! Of course, if you were applying too much pressure, as soon as they deceived, you would continue to have your blade move wider in 4, and wouldn't have time to take 6 before getting hit.

dreadfoil · 09-30-2002, 09:19 PM

'taking the blade' by nabovkov:

it was a hot summer's day, and i had just moved into my new little home, where i enjoyed basking in the sun and puttering around in the garden. one morning, as i weeded through the hedges, my neighbor sat in wait for me on a small wicker chair. he held a sabre in his left hand and stared ominiously at me. i retreated a few yards, and took stock of my yard tools.....[tbc]

dreadfoil · 09-30-2002, 09:20 PM

you should in four, press downward and inwards simultaneouly and hit the opponent on the chest in less than 1 second, if you dilly-dally, you'll lose

D'Artagnan1673 · 09-30-2002, 10:16 PM

13577 is dead on, a solid application of point control is very essential in epee fencing. The tip should never wobble away from an opponent's wrist. You know you have good point control when you hit the wrist without even meaning too because your point was perfectly in line.

I am not sure what Dreafoil means about a bind in quarte. I have been taught by the books that I read that quarte, in epee mind you, is to be avoid anything in quarte. That said, quarte is a good move to use against a left-handed fencer.

Being able to take the blade with strength and accuracy is a very important part of being a epeeist, whether large or small.

DJ Apostrophe · 09-30-2002, 10:23 PM

i disagree about leftys and four... if you go four on me (tall, left handed fencer with a decent point and ok quickness) you have now left the outside of your arm, which is my prime target at all times, wide open.. and if i miss there i finish to your chest/flank area... all with a simple disengage... i never use 4 on a righty (or much on a lefty for that matter) id much rather use counter-6 and keep you to the outside... there is a lot less for you to hit out there... either intentionally or otherwise... just my thoughts.
-w

D'Artagnan1673 · 10-01-2002, 12:43 AM

Sorry, wasn't thinking too much when I wrote the post. I rather should have said that I would be more likely to use 4 on a lefty than a righty, but still not too often.

The one good thing about four is that it is a perfect move where you parry and side-step, taking the blade away from your body while still bringing the blade toward your opponents body.