Parry 4 vs. circle 6

[Bryn Ralph]

And then there is the least used of sabre parries: sixte.

Protects from head cut with a counter-clockwise riposte to target.

[catwood1]

I appreciate the responses from everyone. Well, almost everyone.

Part of my reasoning for asking this, is that I've been thinking about setting up lessons where a fencer was doing 1 parry some of the time, and another parry under different circumstances, and I wasn't sure if there was other stuff I wasn't thinking about in regards to those 2 situations.

It seems like the biggest reason to choose 1 over the other is more based on a tactical choice over a technical reason.

Based on these responses, I'm more leaning towards separately developing both parries, and having students choose between them for tactical reasons like what kind of riposte they want to make. The one caveat here, is that exactly what part of the target is being attacked is a valid point. An attack going to a very tight line will be a very easy c6, while an attack to the back shoulder will take a bit of a windmill if you try and use c6.

[keith]

Based on these responses, I'm more leaning towards separately developing both parries, and having students choose between them for tactical reasons like what kind of riposte they want to make. The one caveat here, is that exactly what part of the target is being attacked is a valid point. An attack going to a very tight line will be a very easy c6, while an attack to the back shoulder will take a bit of a windmill if you try and use c6.

One option is to force the student to use their feet to give them increased tactical options.

Taking the example of an attack into quarte; depending on the distance you initiate the action c-sixte may not be an option unless the student moves their feet.

(Remember that footwork with parries can be forward or backward.)

Also, IMHO, the simple direct riposte is always the riposte you want to make.

[catwood1]

Also, IMHO, the simple direct riposte is always the riposte you want to make.

Yes but the question of with or without opposition is an important one for choosing between 4 and c6.*

*I think it still counts as a simple direct riposte is you make an opposition riposte after taking a c6, although I could be wrong on that one.

[AaronK]

Allen,
Hahahaha- not bloody likely (that he would).
Give me a description of it, if you would be so kind. Ed Korfanty teaches a different movement to the 5th position (guard movement, as if the blade was pivoting on the tip), but since his guard position is not quite 3rd I wouldn't have included that as a method of moving to parry 5 from the examples I gave.

[tbryan]

Yes but the question of with or without opposition is an important one for choosing between 4 and c6.*

Or which target the student plans to flick with the riposte. Shoulder/back flick is a decent option after either a parry 4 or 6, but the student may be more comfortable with one over the other.

I think it still counts as a simple direct riposte is you make an opposition riposte after taking a c6

Agreed.

I'm not so sure about the flick ripostes. I suppose a parry 4 to flank flick against a same-handed opponent without blade is technically a parry 4 and then an indirect riposte with cut-over. I just normally don't put that much thought into what to call it.

[catwood1]

Well if you're going to flank flick to an opposite handed fencer, forget 6, take a c3!

[Rock]

If the fencers are RH<->RH or LH<->LH, the counter-of-sixte makes remises more difficult (relative to a 4 parry).

One more consideration, among many others.

[Rock]

[QUOTE=Bryn Ralph;773955]And then there is the least used of sabre parries: sixte.

True in modern sport fencing, but I'm pretty sure that (sabre) 7 is the least used. It is/was used primarily to protect the back from sabre cuts on horseback.

To recreate it, take a foil 8 position. Raise the wrist to high 8 (shoulder height). Move your hand backward (with the palm still up) so that your hand is next to your shoulder (elbow pointed forward, hand to the rear). This is fine defensively, but, perhaps, it's the not the most optimal location from which to launch a riposte.

Regarding a potential use of parry 7 in current sport sabre:
Against an opponent who likes to beat 4-cutover to the flank, the ability to yield into 7 can be very disconcerting. Riposting while retreating, though awkward from this (sabre) 7 position, can also disturb the opponent's attacking confidence.

In a sport (sabre) context, where the attacker is not going to run past you and attack you from behind, the yielding into a high 8/sabre 7 does not require pulling the hand back as far as the shoulder.

[Happyman001]

Haha, well yes. But my question is, what about the attack exactly should determine it?

If either parry can parry an attack to the high inside line effectively and efficiently, why use 1 over the other?

go with what your gut tells you.

[epeelion]

::facepalm::

[jeff]

::facepalm::

can't do that - that's covering target with the non-weapon hand...

[D'Art]

Not if you do it right