Shoulder Tendinitis

[RenegadeStorm88]

Injuries from wear and tear in fencing are common and as such I am seeking your advice on this one. In highschool I was very active (Wrestling and football) and wound up hurting my shoulder. The sports trainer would just tape me up before practice and games and send me on my way. Well, now that I'm fencing my tendinitis has reared it's ugly head again and is causing me problems. A few months ago It got so bad that I had to wear a sling and stop fencing for about three weeks. That was killer, I'm in a groove right now and don't want to derail it by taking a break again. So what I've done is switched to a lighter epee and this has helped a LOT. However, I cannot afford more lightweight components for my other epees right now so god forbid this one dies on me. It is also painful to stand in a proper en guarde and so I'm forced into a more central position leaving my arm exposed. It has however gotten me better at playing absent as I have to rest my arm sometimes so I'll drop it down or to the side

tl;dr

Arm hurts, messing with my game, how can I fix it? Google hasn't been any help (maybe shoulder exercises?)

Thanks
~~RS

[TBean]

Go to a doctor and ask what they think. Push for an MRI to see what/how much tearing you might have in the shoulder or is it just inflamation. The doctor might send you to PT which will give you specific exercises to help repair and ultimately strengthen the shoulder.

In the meantime, rest the shoulder. Fence opposite handed to stay in the groove.

[Phrogger]

I had tendonitis of the elbow which was finally diagnosed properly after a couple of doctors. I was given a few simple exercises and told that it would be best to avoid activities which caused pain (fencing, bowling, opening jars, using can openers, etc.). During the first six months I did not fence but the elbow did not get better. During the second six months I also did not fence but did the physical therapy exercises religiously. I would say that my elbow started feeling better within six weeks of doing the exercises (I have heard the same thing from others with tendonitis...do not underestimate these simple exercises!) I now fence with no pain at all, but I still avoid bowling because it puts too much stress on my fencing elbow.

Unfortunately, there's also the possibility that the damage could be permanent since you continued to wrestle (and now fence) with the injury. I would suggest seeking a sports medicine specialist to get this taken care of now. You may have to stop fencing for a while or even switch to the off hand, but if you don't the injury could become permanent.

[RenegadeStorm88]

Meh, doctors didnt help, they only said rest it. Its not really acting up at the moment, it just gets sore at practice, and by babying it im just hurting my other shoulder... Besides, if you knew me (and some of you do) or if your from a rural area you know what I mean when I say I dont go to the doctors unless it's neccissary. (If glue and tape'll fix me why pay to have it put on?) But seriously, the doctor didnt say anything different than what family told me.

[Allen Evans]

Searching for medical advice on the internet is never a good idea. Consult a doctor. If your pain/discomfort has gotten worse, your attempts to compensate for tendonitus might have lead to something much worse, like a torn rotator cuff. You need someone with some experiance in shoulder injuries to take a look at whats wrong. Some good film would help -- an MRI is a good start. Also, I suggest buying a pair of sturdy boots to go back and give your previous athletic trainer a good kick.

You've had your fun -- athletically speaking. Talk to an expert (perferably more than one) and see what price you'll pay.

AE

[RenegadeStorm88]

Also, I suggest buying a pair of sturdy boots to go back and give your previous athletic trainer a good kick.
AE

LOL yeah, it guess it's just the mentality of the area I grew up in, but it's a poor town so when the people don't have a lot of money it fosters that way of thinking. (Why pay if you can fix it yourself?) And the tape he applied actually did work well at supporting my shoulder, (thus it didnt hurt) I wonder if theres some sort of brace out there?

[Guymelef]

The other thing you need to do now all the time is keep the shoulder covered and warm. If it is at all possible you want to get in the sauna, steam bath, hot bath or shower as soon as you can after practice. When you get out cover it immediately.

Even in warm weather you need to keep the shoulder covered. Try to wear a Nike or Under Armour compression shirt under your normal tee. You might also consider wearing long sleeve baseball or performance shirts under your fencing jacket. It's an extra layer and it also significantly cuts down on the 'junkie track-marks' you get in epee.

Talk to a trainer and see what he/she recommends as far as PT. If you are in a weight training program think about scaling back the weights and adding reps.

[RenegadeStorm88]

Thanks for the suggestions guy (And for your concern every one) I currently wear a longsleeved tee under my jacket, but i'll look into getting an under armor too

This looks interesting: http://www.return2fitness.net/Suppor.../lp738shoulder

Low profile, heat retention, offers support, inexpensive

[TBean]

LOL yeah, it guess it's just the mentality of the area I grew up in, but it's a poor town so when the people don't have a lot of money it fosters that way of thinking. (Why pay if you can fix it yourself?) And the tape he applied actually did work well at supporting my shoulder, (thus it didnt hurt) I wonder if theres some sort of brace out there?

Tape, braces - whatever - are not the solution. You are simply masking the issue. The longer you provide support to the area, the weaker the supporting muscle becomes, and eventually you have catastrophic failure which is much longer to recover from.

Did you see physician specializing in sports medicine - one that knows shoulders? Given your past history of injury I agree with Allen in that films are a necessary first step in the process to ensure you have not already torn the rotator cuff. The longer you continue to fence, the higher chance of significantly more difficult problems to deal with - trust me this is coming from the girl currently fencing left-handed, who is looking at surgery on her right elbow to repair the tendon tear.

[RenegadeStorm88]

The doctor was a chriropractor, and sports medicine guy, he's the same guy who made my orthodics for my shoes, so i'm sure he knows what he's talking about, im not so opposed to going to the doctors again as i cant afford to

[MyrddinsPrecint]

The doctor was a chriropractor, and sports medicine guy, he's the same guy who made my orthodics for my shoes, so i'm sure he knows what he's talking about, im not so opposed to going to the doctors again as i cant afford to

Why are you sure he knows what he's talking about? You just told us he's an expert in THREE DIFFERENT AREAS. I had a podiatrist make my orthotics, as he was an expert in all of the various problems with my structural deficiencies in my feet, as that was all he did.

Let me also point out that a Chiropractor is not a medical doctor, as helpful as they may be for certain problems for certain people. They do not go to medical school. They might be really smart, they might have great advice, but they can't perform surgery and they can't write prescriptions. If a sports medicine doctor would usually recommend cortisone, for example, a chiropractor (in most states) couldn't give it to you.

Look, if you can't afford to go to the doctor and are thus looking for the best possible next alternative, that's one thing.

However, what you have to understand is that the next best possible alternative we are suggesting is to stop fencing until you can afford a doctor.

Look, you can keep fencing with the pain. There is some chance you will just stay at the level of pain you currently have when you're physically active for the rest of your life. Obviously if you don't change anything, nothing will get better. See: Definition of Insanity.

Worst case scenario: You are doing harm to your body that is not easily reversible. You might require surgery to be able to fix it. You might do permanent damage that can't be fixed by surgery. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to actually not be able to move your arm above shoulder level? Fully tear your rotator cuff (which you theoretically might be in the process of right now) and you'll find out. They can fix that with surgery, but if you can't afford a doctors visit now, you really can't afford that kind of surgery and recovery.

If whoever you've seen wasn't helpful, you may have to find someone better-- namely someone who has gone to medical school, and preferably someone who specializes in shoulders, or as close as you can get. You might have to travel for this.

But deciding that the collective wisdom of fencing.net can solve your problem? ............... It's your arm. Go ahead. But I wouldn't.

[Allen Evans]

MP is too kind.

You've proven that you're tough.

Now, prove that you're smart, and listen to her advice.

AE

[wwalkerjr]

Not a way to get well.
Many high school footballers (particularly linebackers and other defensive players) and wrestlers in my locale incure serious shoulder injuries which typically require surgery (usually laproscopic).
When it comes to your health, get medical advice. As others have said, it is possible that you have a rotator cuff injury. That is not going to get well with UnderArmor. I have suffered rotator cuff injuries, surgeries and rehabs. Without proper medical attention, you risk arthritis and permanent disability at a young age.
This is orthopedic MD stuff. I am not dissing chiropractors, acupuncturists or holistic practitioners, but you need to see someone who has dealt with this particular type of injury often.
If you made your livelihood off your shoulder (i.e. MLB pitcher) you wouldn't hesitate to get it properly treated, ASAP.

[whtouche]

Go to a doctor. . . Push for an MRI

This is some of the best advice offered in a thread full of pretty good advice. Go see an actual doctor, specifically an orthopedist, ideally one that specializes in shoulders.

A few years ago I had similar pain in my shoulder, certain movements hurt, and beyond that it was pretty weak and got fatigued quickly. I had to fence in low line/absence of blade because I had trouble holding my arm up, similar to your experience.

The first person I saw was an athletic trainer, they told me it was probably just shoulder tendinitis (sound familiar?) but that I should see a doctor just in case. I did that, he put me through strength and range of motion tests, told me there was nothing structurally wrong with my shoulder, prescribed physical therapy. I did PT for a year, and it didn't help at all, so I went back to the doc. Saw a different orthopedist, he did the same things, told me the same thing, and I said excuse me I'd really like an MRI because I really want to know what's going on. He agreed, I had the MRI, and it was revealed that I had been fencing for a year and a half with a torn labrum in my shoulder.

I eventually needed surgery and was out of fencing for over 6 months.

You need to take charge of your own health and well being - you know what you should do, it's up to you to do it.

[Hauptman]

I agree with the majority here; find yourself a good doctor (a specialist) and listen to them.

Aside from that, I have a long time problem with tendonitis in my shoulder. From my research, the issue is slow healing. You need to give it time, and blood flow is the key.

So light exercise is best as it will keep the blood flow going. And when I say light, I mean light!! If you feel pain you are pushing too hard; you need to be extremely patient for good healing.

Also, while pain killers are nice you should avoid anti-inflamatories like aspirin and ibuprofin; stick to Tylenol. Some research shows that anti-inflamatories are fine for muscle injury and headaches, but bad for other tissue injuries.

[Guymelef]

Rep to Hauptman. He's absolutely right about blood flow and that's what I meant by keeping the area warm. It's a habit that you should keep for the rest of your career. My suggestions are by no means a cure or substitutes for professional advice and an MRI.

[Phrogger]

The advice about seeing a PT is sound and that is the best route to getting better. However, Dr. Internet is seeing more and more patients that can't afford such pricey care that the rest of us take for granted. You might at least stick with websites that are reputable (WebMD) and seek shoulder-specific exercises for tendonitis (use a range of exercises-not just one). If it doesn't get better after RELIGIOUSLY doing the exercises and not fencing for say, about six months, you really need to find a doctor or be willing to accept the consequences.

[lindajdunn]

What everyone else said. See a doctor. Get an MRI.

I had tennis elbow and asked for (1) and MRI and please do the shoulder too, while I'm in there and (2) a referral to a physical therapist.

Much to the doctor's surprise, I DID have a small tear in the right rotor cuff.

A physical therapist can show you the exercises that are best suited to a fast recovery for whatever your situation is.

I note that I've also done heat/cold three times a day in addition to exercises three times a day.

Now for the problem with fencing while healing, I'll say it before Inq does:

Switch to sabre.

[epeelion]

Meh, doctors didnt help, they only said rest it.

I know I'm late, but I can't help it. This usually means "A medical professional told me what to do, but I don't want to do it, so I'm going to go to other people to see if they'll tell me what I want to hear."

[Fechter1]

I know I'm late, but I can't help it. This usually means "A medical professional told me what to do, but I don't want to do it, so I'm going to go to other people to see if they'll tell me what I want to hear."

I was going to mention something like this as well...

Renegade: You have seen a doctor, he's given you advice that is (IMHO) sound, but you reject it on the basis that it doesn't suit you right now...

I know full well just how frustrating it is to be forced to take time out from fencing due to injuries (had to miss a Montreal World Cup because I could not move ue to shin splint-type pain)... However, I am also intimately familiar with the amount of damage you can do by ignoring the signals your body is giving you (i.e. the pain). If you want, I can recount the whole story of how I wrecked my knee... Ask me why I haven't fenced in over a year now... How's that for a forced break?

Tendonitis, and in essence any repetitive motion inflammation injury, can really only be healed with rest. Anything else is likely to result in more serious, and long term issues for you.

Think of it this way: You can ignore the pain for now, keep fencing, and risk delbilitating chronic injury that will end your fencing career entirely within a few years (if that), or you can take some time off now (a few weeks usually), concentrate on other aspects of training (if your shoulder's hurting, you can still do footwork, right?), and still enjoy a long and (hopefully) healthy fencing career.
I've faced that choice a few times, and once made the wrong decision... I'll likely need knee replacement surgery in a few years because of that decision.

And finally:
LISTEN TO THE ONE WHO WENT THROUGH MED SCHOOL!!!!!