Alexander Massialas Holds All Three First Places

[passata_sotto]

Anyone else notice that, as of 9 Feb 2009, Alexander Massialas is in first place in all three of the men's foil team standings? He just moved ahead of Gerek in the Senior points.

Pretty amazing.

[teacup]

So is it time for the USFA to seriously consider the U23 or U25 category?

[oiuyt]

So is it time for the USFA to seriously consider the U23 or U25 category?

Because we have too many seniors clogging up the development path for those who are aging out of junior?

What goal is accomplished by adding a U23 or U25 category that's relevant to this thread?

-B

[Jason]

I think teacup have been being flippant (or at least should have been).

[teacup]

I certainly meant no disrespect to Alex, I congratulate and applaud him for his accomplishments. It is amazing that he is so young on all three lists.

Is this typical for other countries? I believe that Gladius has pointed out in other threads that the majority of senior fencers in other countries are older. Why is it that the US has such young fencers fencing seniors? Maybe it is different for different weapons? Is fencing becoming more like gymnastics?

Again, this is not a comment on Alex's achievement but perhaps an opportunity to further the debate as to why this is happening and if is it good or bad? What are the pros and cons of having U23 or U25 categories? I don't know but I thought it was worth discussing, but if not or not on this or any other thread, my apologies.

As for seniors clogging up the path for those aging out of juniors, wouldn't it be the other way around?

[erooMynohtnA]

Then don't you mean have a V23 category?

[edew]

Having a U23 or U25 event series would be completely redundant. It may be more worthwhile to have a O23 or O25 (over-23 or over-25) event to allow the older fencers a chance to do well.

[edew]

Also don't forget that Alex Massialas is also #1 in the Y14 points standings as well.

[catwood1]

This is exactly like the other thread about U-23.

In Europe, where athletes are staying at a high level of training into their mid 30s, then U-23 is a great idea.

In the USA, where people are "retiring" from active training when they graduate college at 22, then a U-23 is pointless. It would be far more helpful to make a V23 category in the USA.

[Soberin]

Speaking of foil, Prescod aint bad either for her age. How many points lists is she leading or near the top?

[fdad]

Speaking of foil, Prescod aint bad either for her age. How many points lists is she leading or near the top?

She leads in Cadet and Junior (overwhelmingly) but due to a bad day in Louisville is 9th in Senior - for now.

[fatfencer]

I thought Massialas had a couple of kids.

One of them I remember being a horrible duck and cover squirmer with a slick lame and chest protector.

IS this Alex?

FF

[passata_sotto]

I thought Massialas had a couple of kids.

One of them I remember being a horrible duck and cover squirmer with a slick lame and chest protector.

IS this Alex?

FF

Since Greg only has Sabrina and Alex I guess the answer would be yes?

[MdA]

…….
Is this typical for other countries? I believe that Gladius has pointed out in other threads that the majority of senior fencers in other countries are older. Why is it that the US has such young fencers fencing seniors? Maybe it is different for different weapons? Is fencing becoming more like gymnastics?

Again, this is not a comment on Alex's achievement but perhaps an opportunity to further the debate as to why this is happening and if is it good or bad? What are the pros and cons of having U23 or U25 categories……
As for seniors clogging up the path for those aging out of juniors, wouldn't it be the other way around?

College fencing in the USA kills our top fencers. The biggest carrot in our fencing development system is to land a full ride at one of the top NCAA colleges. The NCAA rules do not make it possible for these athletes to train or compete seriously on the international level.

Basically, our NCAA system…designed to develop pro football/baseball/basketball players….does not work for the development of top international fencers. This combined with the fact that our fencers have to fund themselves after college makes it almost impossible for an American to compete seriously into her/his thirties…without giving up job/marriage/family.

When the kids are in high school or even better “home schooled” with Mom and Dad paying the way….the system works….sorta.

[bunbury]

Basically, our NCAA system…designed to develop pro football/baseball/basketball players….does not work for the development of top international fencers.

Which def explains why most of the highest earning and performing athletes in baseball and basketball skipped college (ARod, Kobe, Lebron, et al) and 95% of NCAA egghand players don't go pro.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

This isn't a Mens Sabre or Mens Epee problem though.

I believe its simply a situational thing, and will change in 3-4 years.

[fencerbill]

So is it time for the USFA to seriously consider the U23 or U25 category?

The majority of USFA age brackets lead to World Championships:

U17/Cadet,
U20/Junior,
Senior,
V50,
V60.

They are working on getting V40 and V70 as well. There seems to be little impetus for World Championships for U14 and younger.

Until the FIE does something, U23 or U25 categories are for bragging rights. Like Open Teams.

[teacup]

Then don't you mean have a V23 category?

You are correct. The discussion is why or how does the US system discourage or disadvantage fencers aged 19 - 30 from continuing to fence at an elite level both internationally and domestically and does this have any relationship to the increase in numbers of young fencers on the senior lists?

Is this unique to foil due to the new timings? Maybe so but WE also has many young fencers on all three points lists yet the peak age for WE fencers may be mid twenties.

The various answers so far are NCAA/work obligations, financial and time constraints. (And of course there are some amazing young athletes.)

For example in Men's epee, there does seem to be a demand for strong national events for B and above fencers aged over 20 but under 40, as confirmed by the high number of entrants for Div I national events. Maybe U23/25 is not the answer but perhaps a 20 - 30/40 age category is needed.

(And yes the NOC is a step in helping fill the needs of this age group.)

[MdA]

[

This isn't a Mens Sabre or Mens Epee problem though.

I believe its simply a situational thing, and will change in 3-4 years.

You may be right. IMO the (not so recent) foil timing changes have made foil a “young man’s” game. Look at the current Olympic Champion. I think the younger fencers adapted better to the new foil game. For the old guys…I think it was a little frustrating to bury the tip in someone’s chest and the light wouldn’t go off. The kids are accustomed to hits that don’t register now….in fact they expect them…and just keep going.

This combined with the NCAA and the lack of financial support has caused a lot of our top foil fencers to move on. In 3-4 years, we will have a new crop (or is that crap) of younger old guys.

[noodle]

This isn't a Mens Sabre or Mens Epee problem though.

I believe its simply a situational thing, and will change in 3-4 years.

foil always seems to be transitional after olympic years. bayer and crew -> kellner and crew -> meinhardt and crew -> massialias and crew?