Fencing in Scotland/France

[Bokeh]

So I have to figure out where to apply for study abroad within the next week or so. I am definitely studying part of the year in France, but I'm probably also going to Scotland for a semester to do some of my English major.

In France, I am hoping to study in Bordeaux (via Middlebury), but I might study in Nantes, Tours, or Aix-En-Provence. In Scotland, I have to choose between St. Andrews, University of Edinburgh, University of Glasgow, or University of Stirling. Right now, I'm leaning towards University of Glasgow because I could take art classes, but St. Andrews apparently has a very strong English program.

Fencing might end up being a deciding factor. I've found club listings online, and most cities in Scotland and France have a least one fencing club, and most schools have a club or team. But it's been difficult to get any measure of how good they are or what they're like, especially as I don't know the competition systems in Europe. I know that there are at least a few Scottish people on fnet, so any advice on either country (not just from Scots, of course) would be wonderful.

[Cookeit]

Don't forget you will need FIE gear to fence there, right?

[Bokeh]

Oh, I had forgotten that! Luckily, I do own all FIE gear, except for one or two blades. The jacket I'm using now isn't, but I have a new one that I'm waiting to get tailored.

[sionnach]

From what I've heard, Edinburgh fencing club is scotland's best club for épée, I don't know how strong the university clubs are. Gav should be able to steer you in the right direction

[AdamH]

Which weapon and what sort of level?

Edinburgh University (what is in Edinburgh) is probably best-placed for a variety and depth of fencing activity. The university club is pretty robust and the Edinburgh fencing club (pretty much the strongest club in Scotland) is also readily accessible.

Glasgow Uni and Strathclyde uni both have fencing clubs and there are a couple of other clubs in the city.

St Andrews is interesting in that a coach from EFC is contracted there for 30hrs/week and they do get out and about, although I don't know how much fencing is available outside of the uni.

Stirling had some very decent fencers a couple of years back but they've since graduated and moved to Edinburgh (and thus EFC)

Travel to any tournament in the UK is doable at worst with an overnight stopover and coupled with the university circuit it's guaranteed you can fence in tournaments at least twice a month. For example, this month I'm going to a 6W tournament in the middle of the UK for foil, expected entries around 108 (capped and nearly full, epee is already full at 108 entries) and a one-hit epee team shindig further north in Scotland the weekend after. In March, doing the Edinburgh international open (on my doorstep) then flying over to Belfast and back in a day to do a small open (was there in January for a similar event, around 35 entries in MF,some Germans and French rocked up). Also a club competition that month at my original club in Edinburgh.

Plenty going on and Edinburgh and Glasgow are best-connected for cheap flights to the European mainland for opens there. Last summer I went to a German open from Glasgow for 40GBP return which was very decent. Half the Dutch national team were there and loads of German vets. Good times!

edit: Just to note, FIE gear is not required for Opens in the UK and Ireland, but obviously required for the FIE satellites, etc. Most tournaments in Germany and the Netherlands require FIE kit.

Oh and if that's your kind of thing, the Edinburgh college of art is 2 minutes walk from EFC.

[D'Art]

OK, fencing-wise Edinburgh is your best bet by a long shot. St Andrews is very average at best, Glasgow not any better, Stirling isn't even worth looking at. As for other clubs in the cities, again, Edinburgh is by far your best bet.

In terms of the courses, I have no idea, as I did a science degree, but either Edinburgh or St Andrews would be my guess at being the best ones to look at for Classics.

As for kit, FIE stuff isn't required in the UK, but I don't know about France, although I know a few European countries insist on full FIE kit.

[Bokeh]

Which weapon and what sort of level?

I fence epee. I'm definitely not at the highest echelon, but I've been competing for 8 yearsish and my club at home is quite good. Part of the reason I'm going abroad for the whole year is that my college team doesn't provide very good coaching or training, though the competition is decent since we're varsity and near Boston.

St Andrews is interesting in that a coach from EFC is contracted there for 30hrs/week and they do get out and about, although I don't know how much fencing is available outside of the uni.

So the coach travels back and forth multiple times each week? And yeah, the impression I got from my sister (who's living in Scotland now) and the limited info I got online was that St Andrews has some good fencers but it's sort of isolated.

In terms of the courses, I have no idea, as I did a science degree, but either Edinburgh or St Andrews would be my guess at being the best ones to look at for Classics.

Yeah, my advisor for English has a home in Scotland and said St Andrews had a really good English program. I think she also highly recommended Edinburgh, but she didn't know much about Glasgow. (Though I'd assume they're all at least pretty good)

I was a bit averse to studying in Edinburgh because I found all the big stone facades a bit overwhelming and gloomy when I visited, but I suppose going in winter didn't help. And if it has art and the best fencing, well...

Thanks everyone for all the replies so far! I'm amazed at how quickly I got such informed advice.

[whiteandbluefencer]

Well, I don't know anything about the fencing in the areas of France that you're looking at, but I'm studying abroad in Angers right now and I can tell you that I haven't heard any rules about needing FIE gear (I can't visit the clubs to try and pick one though until later in the month because there's no fencing during the public school breaks). Course, I'm also not really looking at competing as of now, and that's where the rules would really matter. Good luck with your study abroad!

[sleepyweasle]

My daughter is in a Masters program at University of Edinburgh (which she loves - she came back after doing a semester abroad her junior year) and she fences for the Uni team. They won their league this year (at least the women did) and are now fencing in the finals. She loves the team and is very happy - and she fences epee (although she frequently also fences foil at meets) if that helps.

[Bokeh]

Sleeplyweasle, that's actually very helpful, because Edinburgh is becoming more likely at the moment -- it sounds like the fencing is best there, I already know a family there, and it would be very easy to travel. I mostly have to see if they have Russian courses available to exchange students. Does your daughter compete with the other Scottish universities, then? Has she told you anything about what their teams are like?

[sleepyweasle]

This might help you... www.eufc.org.uk/

they don't update the site that often but it's still somewhat informative. I'll ask my daughter if I can give you her email and you can ask her directly if that's OK with her.

[wahrman]

It's been said but yeah, Edinburgh Fencing Club is a good, strong epee club.
They've got a junior fencer (or did a year ago) who is outstanding. The Uni has some really nice, enthusiastic fencers. You will have a good time there, I promise. Both have a bunch of really cool people.

As for the city itself, everyone is different but I really like it. Edinburgh is one of my favourite cities.

And of course, our own Gav is there.

[downunder]

It's been said but yeah, Edinburgh Fencing Club is a good, strong epee club.

Strong is surely a relative term, correct?

The fencing will be much stronger in Bordeaux.

I'm not trying to criticise Scottish Fencing, but based on the GBR national rankings I'd hardly call Edinburgh a strong club (compared to LTFC, Haverstock etc who comprise nearly all of the top ten whereas Edinburgh have none in the top 50). Edinburgh is a wonderful city with oodles of culture and atmosphere and all the fencers I know there are wonderful people but if we're doing a fair comparison I think recommending it on the fencing standard relative to Bordeaux is not fair at all.


See
http://www.bec-escrime.fr/index.php/accueil.html
http://www.cam-bordeaux.com/section....n=escrime&id=3

For two clubs which has permanent fencing setups in Bordeaux. I know one of the coaches at the first one so I can put you in touch if you like.

[wahrman]

Well yes of course, everything is relative. But the author is not going to be in London, he/she is going to be in Scotland.

Maybe I misread but I don't recall the choice being between Bordeaux or someplace in Scotland but rather if I were to be in Scotland anyway, where would I want to fence. In that context, I stand by my statement about EFC.

Maybe he/she should just go to Tauber then?

Strong is surely a relative term, correct?

The fencing will be much stronger in Bordeaux.

I'm not trying to criticise Scottish Fencing, but based on the GBR national rankings I'd hardly call Edinburgh a strong club (compared to LTFC, Haverstock etc who comprise nearly all of the top ten whereas Edinburgh have none in the top 50). Edinburgh is a wonderful city with oodles of culture and atmosphere and all the fencers I know there are wonderful people but if we're doing a fair comparison I think recommending it on the fencing standard relative to Bordeaux is not fair at all.


See
http://www.bec-escrime.fr/index.php/accueil.html
http://www.cam-bordeaux.com/section....n=escrime&id=3

For two clubs which has permanent fencing setups in Bordeaux. I know one of the coaches at the first one so I can put you in touch if you like.

[Bokeh]

Well yes of course, everything is relative. But the author is not going to be in London, he/she is going to be in Scotland.

Yeah, I am definitely not studying anywhere other than France and probably Scotland. I like England, and I'm planning to visit, but I've always loved Scotland, the options in England were overwhelming, etc.

I am almost positive that I'll be studying in Bordeaux for at least the spring semester. I'm also probably applying to a progam in Nantes, though, or one of a few others. I had wanted to go to France for the whole year so I could become fluent, but I'm an English major, and for some strange reason, the English department doesn't count courses taught in French about French books. So it looks like I'll have to do my first semester in Scotland (oh, woe is me!).

downunder -- that would be wonderful, actually, though I think I'll wait until I'm more sure about when/where I'm going. And the clubs there are still open, right, there's no odd criteria for being allowed to fence for them?

Oh, I forgot to add that I've almost definitely ruled out St Andrews. Their term ends in late December, which would leave me no time to go home for break.

[Gav]

Downunder may be a good ref but it seems he can't read what the OP actually asked...

I imagine Bordeax has some good clubs but I am out of touch with the few french fencers I know.

As for my home town...

Edinburgh has a good reputation as a Uni'. You will do well by studying there.

I am surprised you found Edinburgh so gloomy. You mustn't have seen it in the sunshine. Though it's winter right now so we aren't getting any of that. It's a really beautiful city. Having said that I think that Edinburgh looks it best through a fine mist or drizzle at night when the lighting becomes very diffused. Probably says a lot about me!

I think others have already answered your questions on Epee fencing welll enough.

EFC does have some good epeeists but it's been a bit variable of late. I think we're in that part of the year when people "can't be bothered". It should pick up by the time you get here. At present it's £8 floor fees a night but you can pay a monthly fee and that works out a lot less (but i've forgotten how much that is). We meet every Tuesday and Thursday between 7 and 9:30pm. You can see more here: www.edinburghfencingclub.co.uk

There's a few of us who want to get the students along more often so we are trying to negotiate a better rate with the committee. We regularly have 10 pistes out and 2-4 will be Epee. As an aside Foil and Sabre are actually much stronger at the moment. We're definitely looking for people to do Epee at present.
For coaching there are various options. But you will need to make yourself known at the club before we can sort it out. There's 3 coaches I can think of that could take you on.. but it depends on how booked up they are.

EUFC has a good rep for a student club. I don't want to denigrate the students too much but... I should point out that student fencing is not the same as "competitive" fencing. There are various leages and cups and it's all gotten a bit more complex than when I was a student. In general the standard is a lot less than the big national tournaments. From what I hear the EUFC lot are a good crowd. I know several and I don't have a problem with any of them.

If you want any other general information then get in touch.

Edit: As I recall (though it's been a while since I was at uni) Glasgow has an excellent science rep but is so-so in the arts. Also Fencing, such that it is, is not any good. Glasgow Uni Fencing club is the only club in that area I would directly recommend. There's Belahouston (which isn't a student club) but I hear it's not that good at moment. Don't bother with Glasgow West End (sorry guys ) as it's now more of a social club with fencing as it's theme. For such a large city it amazes me that there isn't more fencing going on over there.

[downunder]

Downunder may be a good ref but it seems he can't read what the OP actually asked...

This is true. Apologies, hopefully I was helpful with the Bordeaux stuff.

[Bokeh]

downunder: No problem -- I'm pretty confused myself! And your Bordeaux information will definitely come in handy as I finalize my plans.

Gav, I think your reply has settled me on Edinburgh if I go to Scotland. I'll pm you when I'm more awake.

Does anyone have any more information on fencing in France/the general European system?

I know it's another 8 months away, but I'm already ridiculously excited about going abroad and training in countries where the first question upon hearing I fence won't always be "oh, like with swords and stuff?"

[downunder]

you should study in London.

I'm having a great time as a student here.

[wahrman]

You really should at least go down to London to fence once or twice whilst in Scotland.

I've not fenced at London Thames but the Haverstock guys are a good lot.

you should study in London.

I'm having a great time as a student here.