My almost 12 y.o. has taken beginner (foil) classes for 3 months at a foil & epee club. They said he is epee so he tried it a few times so far & likes it. He also wanted to try sabre so he tried it a few times at a sabre-only club, he likes that too and they say he is definitely sabre... He really has done very well bouting in both so far, likes both, and now can't decide. So we have 2 clubs wanting him to continue on their weapons, both telling us to get his equipment soon, and we're almost due to buy membership & more classes. We like both coaches although 1 seems to give more personal attention but the other has a better equipped facility. If he's good at both, likes both, what else should we consider in helping him choose his first weapon? Is 1 better to learn before the other? Is it true that sabre is more sought after in college? (ok, maybe a little early for that.) Does his average height make him less suitable for epee than sabre? It seems everyone is very loyal to their weapons here, but I figured I'd give this a try anyway. Thanks!
1. I'm inclined to say stay at the club you've been at for 3 months. Switching mid-stream for no real reason seems like an odd choice to me. If they're doing a good job, and your kid is having fun and learning, I say stick with them.
2. I also liked this statement: "We like both coaches although 1 seems to give more personal attention." I say attention > equipment.
3. Which clubs kids generally look like they're having the most fun? (Retaining sustained interest over multiple years is often the hardest part.)
I wouldn't worry much about what weapon colleges are looking for, or what height is best for what, quite yet. (Avg height is fine for all the weapons).
Foil/ epee/ sabre. They're all good choices.
Good luck with it!
__________________ When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."
All things being equal, I say stay at the club you are at. If you enjoy it, then the most important thing is being satisfied. And personal attention is WAY more important than having a well equipped club. There is 1 club I've been to that has BY FAR the best equipped facility I have ever seen. I have never seen them produce a good fencer, and I would not recommend them. I also know of a club with a not that great facility. A few non-grounded strips without score/time boxes, and an office. I would recommend this club to anyone because of the way they treat their members.
IMHO, how coaches treat fencers is WAYYYY more important than where they are coaching.
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Watch your child, is he more agressive or more thinkative(if that's a word, does he think about what he does) if he is more agressive go for sabre and if more thinkative go with epee.
another thing to consider
sabre hurts more
epee leaves bruses.
Zanzig generalizes too much here, I think. Sabre doesn't hurt any more than foil or epee, and sabre favors those who think, you just have to think differently with sabre.
Also, I'd be not to quick to judge who offers more personalized attention. Usually the real personalized attention comes in the form of private lessons. When fencers are just starting out, it is far more economical and sensible for everyone to teach them using group instruction. Later when both aptitude and commitment have been demonstrated, it's logical at that point to give private lessons. These lessons are almost universally paid for by the student or his parents.
Before you make the assumption that private instruction isn't available at the sabre club, you should talk to the coach. Most likely he will offer that instruction if he isn't already too booked. If he is, he might have an assistant coach who is willing to work one-on-one as well.
Every coach has their own way of working with new students. Some prefer group instruction longer while the student develops the basic skills and knowledge which they will need in order to be taught the real game of fencing. Others prefer one-on-one instruction earlier to correct any bad habits. It depends on the demand for his teaching skills, I think. Also, he may be looking for proof that you and your son are ready to take things to the next level.
It might also be noted that if a coach is in such demand that he has to choose carefully whom he teaches privately, this is usually one sign that you have a good coach.
One of the things I like about the club I'm in (granted, it's a university club), is that a fencer can decide at each practice what he/she wants to fence. My point is this: why does your child have to pick? I feel that is one of the biggest flaws with modern fencing: once you choose a weapon, the encouragement to try another is minimal.
That just my 2 pennies though. If your child enjoys fencing both sabre and epee, is it imperative that you is forced to pick?
Thanks to everyone who replied! Unfortunately, we have to choose because the 2 weapons are at different clubs and we have to buy equipment and pay more $ soon.
To clarify, he's only taken group foil/epee lessons during his 3 months at the club which has lots of classes, equipment and coaches. The sabre lessons are private or semi-private only so he's learned more in less time but there's only 1 coach, a small room, no strips, just tape on the floor and 1 time/score box. His students seem very happy there but won't they at least need pistes as they progress?
We'll see how things go in the next week, talk with the coaches, and maybe try a private epee lesson. Right now he doesn't want to choose and wishes there was a 4th weapon with slashing, full body target, and no ROW! He thinks he's better at sabre than epee but kind of likes that epee is more challenging for him. if it helps any, he is a thinker, sometimes aggressive, a lefty or ambi, a martial artist and a quick learner.
1. no strips, just tape on the floor and 1 time/score box. His students seem very happy there but won't they at least need pistes as they progress?
2. if it helps any, he is a thinker, sometimes aggressive, a lefty or ambi, a martial artist and a quick learner.
Here's a few more thoughts.
1. Metal strips are nice (esp. in Epee where the foot is target) but are not required to progress. Taped off strips are just fine for Sabre.
2. The mental attributes are excellent for all 3 weapons. Lefties often have a slight advantage over righties. (Note that weapons and uniforms are right or left. Some jackets are ambi... but not many and not the best ones).
Martial arts is good prep for fencing. Some students have said that the fencing "en guard" stance is like the "water" stance (except for a slight weight shift difference).
Sounds like you can't lose here. Follow your gut.
And, as was mentioned earlier, you can always switch should you feel so inclined.
__________________ When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."
Where is your kid happiest? Where are the other fencers the most helpful/courteous/welcoming? Which coach does he get along with better. How serious are you/ is he? After 3 months he cant possibly know what weapon he likes the best. I had one kid do both for 2 years; others do all three. Talk frankly to the coaches about money. How much and for what. Epees are a LOT more expensive than sabres but in sabre you eventually need an electric mask, lame and overglove. Point weapons require more maintenance than sabres - dexterity with little tiny screws etc. Some clubs push private lessons. Some are content to give group lessons for as long as you like. Some clubs push the big, expensive competitions, some hold regular club competitions for free or encourage competing at local competitions.
In the end the personnel at the club. coaches and fencers and the parents of the other kid fencers is one of the most important parts of a club. Even if your kid gets to a place where he is looking at National Team, where he is, how he gets along with his coach and whether his clubmates help or discourage him is the biggest part of fencing. If he doesn't love it at 12 he will not be fencing when he is 18.
My 2 cents; although I have spent considerably more on fencing than that.
p.s if he is lefty or ambi go with lefty. No matter what weapon. Sabre 2008 Olympic teams 6 lefty out of 8. I think. But talk to the coach. Some coaches are not comfortable with lefties and so that might make your decision for you.
i totally belive that he should do saber
1. saber is the easiest to learn how to be good in
2. saber is a lot more fun to do
3. eppee has a lot of girls and it is kind of werid for guys to do eppee]
4. saber rules!
plus the coaches said he was good at saber
i totally belive that he should do saber
1. saber is the easiest to learn how to be good in
2. saber is a lot more fun to do
3. eppee has a lot of girls and it is kind of werid for guys to do eppee]
4. saber rules!
plus the coaches said he was good at saber
I would agree that Sabre is the best kind of fencing, but I must contradict a couple of your points here: #3: It is kind of weird for guys to fence epee? Not really. I know a lot of guys who fence epee and destroy at it. Nothing's wrong with it, but I simply prefer Sabre, definitely the more aggressive of the three weapons. however, the ultimate decision is up to your child. Good luck!
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Suddenly, an arrow sprouted in his shoulder. Glancing down at it, he snarled,
You'll have to do better than that."
The next arrow took root between his eyes.
i totally belive that he should do saber
1. saber is the easiest to learn how to be good in
2. saber is a lot more fun to do
3. eppee has a lot of girls and it is kind of werid for guys to do eppee]
4. saber rules!
plus the coaches said he was good at saber
1) is not true
2) is true
3) is so backwards it probably comes from the same mind that said "The economy is fine" yesterday.
4) is true.
NAC D 2008 had 257 Division I Men's Epee fencers. I suppose there are a lot of weird people in the world.
Thanks to everyone who replied! Unfortunately, we have to choose because the 2 weapons are at different clubs and we have to buy equipment and pay more $ soon.
To clarify, he's only taken group foil/epee lessons during his 3 months at the club which has lots of classes, equipment and coaches. The sabre lessons are private or semi-private only so he's learned more in less time but there's only 1 coach, a small room, no strips, just tape on the floor and 1 time/score box. His students seem very happy there but won't they at least need pistes as they progress?.....
….
I think you have answered your own question here. In youth fencing, it’s really about resources in your area. Which weapon(s) offer the most equipment, lessons, classes, practices, club floor space, coaches, tournaments, referees, and other youth fencers…in your area. That is where you should spend your time and money. As Allen says…he can always switch later if he finds himself in an area/region that supports the other weapon.
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how to choose between sabre or epee 
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