Sabre fencing,

[Christine23]

Sabre fencers, what do you think of before you start a bout or before the referee says allez. I could use a few pointers, just started learning.Thank you.

[Peach]

Breathe
Relax
Hand first
Move

What I think about before a bout or an action against a specific person (or with a specific referee) becomes much more detailed.

[sabregrrrl]

I think about keeping my footwork small and my actions tight. I also remind myself that I am twice as old as most of the fencers and that rushing to keep up with them is not the best idea.

Lately, I keep thinking "be the "old", wily, slimy fencer that messes up their indicator"

[catwood1]

"Have fun."

Especially fencing sabre, I tend to get wayyyy too wound up. Telling myself to have fun reminds me why I'm there, and helps me relax. Being relaxed tends to yield better results.

[Purple Fencer]

(playing on the stereotype that sabeurs are all knuckle-dragging Neanderthals....)

*grunt grunt* "Thag lunge!!"

'course...if the Geico cavemen fenced, they'd fence sabre!

[Superscribe]

So easy, even cavepeople can do it.

[Morale Officer]

(playing on the stereotype that sabeurs are all knuckle-dragging Neanderthals....)

*grunt grunt* "Thag lunge!!"

'course...if the Geico cavemen fenced, they'd fence sabre!

Um...is it bad that I was going to say that, too! LOL! Honestly, yesterday during the tournament I was at, I didn't think about a whole lot. There were a few "slow down and breathe," then a few "Damn my knee hurts" and the occasional, "this is gonna be fun!" and quite honestly, there was a "grunt grunt...sabre!" It all depends on what my opponenets are doing, how big they are, what is their rating, etc. I do have to remind myself "Sabre, not Foil" and vice versa depending on what tournament I'm in.

[catwood1]

I do have to remind myself "Sabre, not Foil" and vice versa depending on what tournament I'm in.

Indeed. I can go from epee to foil and back with no problems, but switching back and fourth from sabre to foil and back is screwing with me. I keep on making a foil parry 4 and getting hit on the side of the head.

On the bright side, its fantastic negative reinforcement!
"Parry! WHACK!!!, ok, don't do that again..."
repeat...

[Coldfire]

Don't rush into the middle. Always one or two slow steps with eyes open to see what the opponent is doing, then you create the action.

[edew]

I go with "guessing what my opponent will do". A lot of saber is fought before the referee says, "fence!". If you can anticipate your opponent's move, you can get a step on him or her.

Of course, the higher the level of opponent, the harder to anticipate and the quicker the opponent can make adjustments even if you guessed right.

Which leads to: hedge your bets. If you expect X, or possibly Y, then there's usually a safe choice that won't get you nailed.

And, record all actions in your head, so that the next touch is determined with all the historical information plus the information you're reading at the moment. Many times, fencers lose focus and don't know how often they've been hit with a simple advance-lunge from the opponent. So they fall for the same trick again. Be aware of what occurred, recall all little details and if anything resembling that previous action occurred, you'd know. Feel free to test to verify whether your guess is good or not. Make sure you use non-destructive testing (i.e., don't lose a point in order to learn something from your opponent).

[nahouw]

I go with "guessing what my opponent will do". A lot of saber is fought before the referee says, "fence!". If you can anticipate your opponent's move, you can get a step on him or her.

Of course, the higher the level of opponent, the harder to anticipate and the quicker the opponent can make adjustments even if you guessed right.

I agree with edew -- knowing your opponent and guessing what they wlll do is a big help. It didn't help when I was fencing Nicole Mustilli -- she always thought what I should do because she always kept a record of all oppoments; she asked me one day because she was confused from her notes -- I always changed what I did. I explained that I only fence my opponemt based upon what they do -- so if she changes what she does, so then I change what I do.

[Inquartata]

'course...if the Geico cavemen fenced, they'd fence sabre!

Yes, because they are cultivated, if waspish, individuals.

[notalent]

Don't rush into the middle. Always one or two slow steps with eyes open to see what the opponent is doing, then you create the action.

This is a good idea for an experienced fencer. Tim Morehouse and Jason Rogers both get a lot of parry repostes in the middle based off of this preperation. For a new fencer it is an invitation to get hit in preperation

I tell my students to come up to the linne with a plan and exicute the plan. What the plan is isnt really that important, knowing what you are going to do is important. After every touch do a quick evaluation of the last action and based off the result of that last action. Over this past weekend I overheard Yuri Gelman(sp?) giving advice to one of his student "Change if you have to, dont if you dont" Advice I believe in

[Jason]

This is a good idea for an experienced fencer. Tim Morehouse and Jason Rogers both get a lot of parry repostes in the middle based off of this preperation. For a new fencer it is an invitation to get hit in preperation

Actually, it's good advice for fencers of any level. A big problem that a lot of beginning sabre fencer have is they rush out into the box without watching what's happening. As a result they are frequently falling short or being hit in preparation or whatever. It's extremely beneficial for beginners to learn to understand what's happening in front of them, rather than just make a plan and do it (of course, they may also be making a plan, but they need to watch what's happening while they are looking to execute it). It may be difficult for them (then again, it may not be), but it will pay off greatly in a fairly short time.

[bigdawg2121]

Make sure you use non-destructive testing (i.e., don't lose a point in order to learn something from your opponent).

Which doesn't really mean that you can't give up the occasional touch to gain several more.

[Coldfire]

I tell my students to come up to the line with a plan and exicute the plan.

We have a saying for that at Manhattan Fencing. "Strong and Wrong". The idea is that even if you chose the wrong action for a given situation you should still execute the action well and even though it was "wrong" you can still get the touch if your opponent makes a mistake, instead of just half @ssing the action and losing the touch anyway.

[Sean Butler]

I don't disagree with Jason's comments in the slightest, but I do think that a plan can incorporate a sort of dynamism such that looking for the opponent's reaction is part of that plan. A plan doesn't have to be specific about exactly how the action will happen.

I advocate a strong-willed approach which establishes a plan and sticks to it. Before you come to the line, make a quick and simple assessment of what you need to do and how you will do it. Once you have the plan, stick to that plan; block-out any other distractions or doubts about it. Even if the plan doesn't work exactly as you expected, the opponent's response will often be easier for you to parse and understand. I find that often this kind of mindset creates more deliberate actions and these are easier for a referee to see.

When I am in the right mindset, while I am waiting for the referee to say "fence" I am calm, committed, determined and completely enthusiastic about what I am going to do. There is no room in my head for doubts or bad calls or unlucky events, etc. Just focus on the here and now, every point.

[notalent]

Actually, it's good advice for fencers of any level. A big problem that a lot of beginning sabre fencer have is they rush out into the box without watching what's happening. As a result they are frequently falling short or being hit in preparation or whatever. It's extremely beneficial for beginners to learn to understand what's happening in front of them, rather than just make a plan and do it (of course, they may also be making a plan, but they need to watch what's happening while they are looking to execute it). It may be difficult for them (then again, it may not be), but it will pay off greatly in a fairly short time.

One of the biggest problems the new fencer has is not knowing what is going on. It takes time for the game to slow down enough for evaluation on the fly to take place. The Idea at the begining is to plan and exicute, then evaluate. As you progress and the game slows down, and you become able to recognize the signals in a bout that your opp is giving. Then your plan becomes I will do x but look for y.

Ofcourse there is the truth of no plan survives first contact with the enemy For new fencer getting the ability to do something with decisiveness is Important.

[Jason]

One of the biggest problems the new fencer has is not knowing what is going on. It takes time for the game to slow down enough for evaluation on the fly to take place. The Idea at the begining is to plan and exicute, then evaluate. As you progress and the game slows down, and you become able to recognize the signals in a bout that your opp is giving. Then your plan becomes I will do x but look for y.

Ofcourse there is the truth of no plan survives first contact with the enemy For new fencer getting the ability to do something with decisiveness is Important.

Decisiveness is extremely important. But you absolutely can--and should--train beginners to understand what is happening on the strip while still teaching them to fence decisively. Part of the problem with having beginners go out and execute an action without watching their opponent is that you are actively training them to fence without observing what's happening. This slows down the development of their ability to perceive the situation in a bout. The focus with beginners needs to be on the development of the skills and abilities they will need as they get older, not on developing strategies that the coach thinks may win them touches immediately. (And I'll even add that training beginners to be able to perceive what's happening will actually generate far more touches for them than if they just execute a plan blindly.)

[catwood1]

Interesting discussion.


I like having beginners starting with a few small steps to see whats going on, but doing it with a very specific plan. Really, only looking for 1 of 2 responses. Each response has exactly one way the student should respond to it. This is a very simplified version of what goes on at higher levels, but it starts to introduce the idea of small steps to see whats going on.

So long as they are only looking for 1 thing, its easy to choose a response and perform it with decisiveness.