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gladius · 01-18-2009, 01:56 PM

From the FIS http://www.federscherma.it/file/30940.pdf

Rome, January 16, 2009

TECHNICAL COMMUNIQUE #2/09

Re: Directives for conductive bib in foil

The 2007 FIE Congress decreed that starting January 1, 2009, for all senior World Cup will be obligatory to have a conductive bib, for all junior World Cup from October 1, 2009.

Accordingly, the FIS EC in the meeting of December 12, 2008, has decreed that in the following national [Italy] competitions the use of a conductive bib will be obligatory:

Senior: starting from the second National Qualification competition in Bari [March 27-29, 2009] (*)
Junior: starting with the 2009-10 competitive season

Manufacturers of fencing equipment are in possession of the technical specifications for producing an extra kit to make the bib conductive on a personal mask. Therefore, anyone concerned should contact them directly for further information and details.

For any additional clarification or explanation you may contact the Technical Sector, Mr. Gianluca Farinelli, Tel: 06-3685-8026 - cell: 348-142-7309.

Sincerely,

The Secretary General
Salvatore Ottaviano

(*) The first Italian National Qualification for all weapons but WF took place in Ravenna, December 12-14, 2008. WF will have its first National Qualification competition in Jesi, February 1, 2009.

QUESTION: Is the USFA on the same page???

Purple Fencer · 01-18-2009, 03:26 PM

Where have you been? This is old news.

As for USFA, they are currently NOT implementing this for the current season...they want to see how it goes first.

Since -- y'know -- FIE made it mandatory without actually TESTING the idea first...

FrSpike · 01-18-2009, 04:16 PM

*Sings* It's the ennnnnd of the world as we know it...and I feel fine...

OK, maybe not entirely.

SJCFU#2 · 01-18-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

As for USFA, they are currently NOT implementing this for the current season...they want to see how it goes first.

Since -- y'know -- FIE made it mandatory without actually TESTING the idea first...

There's also the simple matter of logistics to consider.

Manufacturers may have "the technical specifications for producing an extra kit to make the bib conductive on a personal mask." however AFAIK none are yet available.

I suspect that because the FIE does not allow converted masks for international competitions that up until now most of the manufacturers have been too busy developing and producing new masks in order to satisfy the needs of international fencers to worry about conversion kits for existing masks (which doesn't mean that they haven't been thinking about it - it just hasn't been a top priority).

Purple Fencer · 01-18-2009, 07:04 PM

I thought LP haad one for their X-Change mask already...

KD5MDK · 01-18-2009, 10:10 PM

I saw the Blue Gauntlet versions at their booth today. It was a bit smaller than I expected. I'm sure the other vendors have them too.

Empty Wallet · 01-18-2009, 10:49 PM

PBT have made one, Gilbert informed me. Apparently it uses double-sided tape to stick on.

While this may not be of regular interest to USFA people, variety of other countries are adopting lame bibs this year for their competitions -- but may not require the full FIE standard.

JackOfHearts · 01-19-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

As for USFA, they are currently NOT implementing this for the current season...they want to see how it goes first.

If they eventually do, I'm switching to epee.

May as well save the time/money in the long run.

fatfencer · 01-19-2009, 10:19 AM

I havent decided whether to add a piece of plastic to the back of the bib or to wear as a... shudder... "gorget" a la the SCA.

I really don't think there will be substantial technical issues with this and so its probably going to stick.

I'm also sure LP will be ahead of the game in terms of quality and such.

Current X-change owners are way ahead in that well just have to replace a bib.

FF

PS: Its a horrible idea to say its ok to stab someone in the neck but then again how many off tagrets on my bib have happened this year alone and I havent felt anything?

PPS: LP(alex) is there any way you can make your bib like a bit longer around so that theres less likelihood of a blade going under the bib?

rudd · 01-19-2009, 03:42 PM

I have fenced someone who was wearing the new lame bib. It in no way altered my game. At most it is worth one hit per bout and I don't se it presenting any additional safety concerns.

oso97 · 01-19-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gladius

QUESTION: Is the USFA on the same page???

The only way to not know the answer to this question is if you've not been paying attention. Its been stated several times the USFA will not be adopting this rule this season. Or did you already know the answer, and you're asking it for other reasons?

gladius · 01-19-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oso97

The only way to not know the answer to this question is if you've not been paying attention. Its been stated several times the USFA will not be adopting this rule this season. Or did you already know the answer, and you're asking it for other reasons?

Actually this was a friendly warning to anyone going to a senior WC. I had read of the USFA "reluctance" to accept and adapt to the rule (controversial as it may be) and I was wondering what a US foilist going to a senior WC event would do when notified on the spot that his mask was not acceptable. Read the comment on the Copenhagen tournament this past weekend in another thread.

I believe that the USFA should make abundantly clear that while it has not yet adopted this rule in US (contrary to the Italians who adopted the rule for senior national events for the remainder of this season), if you fence abroad in any senior WC as of January 1, you'd better adapt before boarding the plane. Do you know of anyone in the USFA issuing this warning?

And for junior events, start making plans for next season.

Cookeit · 01-19-2009, 06:50 PM

Lucky for me I accidentally hit the bib all the time...

dberke · 01-19-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gladius

Actually this was a friendly warning to anyone going to a senior WC. I had read of the USFA "reluctance" to accept and adapt to the rule (controversial as it may be) and I was wondering what a US foilist going to a senior WC event would do when notified on the spot that his mask was not acceptable. Read the comment on the Copenhagen tournament this past weekend in another thread.

I believe that the USFA should make abundantly clear that while it has not yet adopted this rule in US (contrary to the Italians who adopted the rule for senior national events for the remainder of this season), if you fence abroad in any senior WC as of January 1, you'd better adapt before boarding the plane. Do you know of anyone in the USFA issuing this warning?

And for junior events, start making plans for next season.

I think the information is out there - look on the FIE website. I doubt there are any US fencers that attend World Cups that aren't aware of the rule changes. If they aren't, then they're either asleep at the switch, or their coach isn't doing his/her job.

Dan

peet · 01-20-2009, 12:14 AM

Personally I'm hoping the USFA can "stall" on this long enough for the FIE to come to its senses and reverse the change, just like the black card for non-combativity.

Then again, this one involves equipment changes and manufacturers tooling up, so i suppose it'd be harder to reverse.

Ugh.
-p

Purple Fencer · 01-20-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peet

Personally I'm hoping the USFA can "stall" on this long enough for the FIE to come to its senses and reverse the change, just like the black card for non-combativity.

Then again, this one involves equipment changes and manufacturers tooling up, so i suppose it'd be harder to reverse.

Ugh.
-p

I'm not so sure about that...tooling up for an additional covering to the bib should be a LOT less fo a problem than tooling up for a new mask design like the X-Change...

Barry Paul · 01-20-2009, 07:27 AM

Sorry for the repeat post but I hope some no technical foil fencers might miss it in the amourer section. For all those who thought lame bibs were pointless Richard Kruse told me today that after fencing in the A grade at the weekend (which he won) Fencers who wore large bat eared bibs and hid behind their bib were now much easier to hit and for him it was a definite advantage.

The wire is a little awkward coming off a few times, however in training they don't bother with a wire and it always registered valid when hit. This is with a bib with no attempted of making the inside conductive, I presume the tabs that crocodile clip attached too are the main conductive path.

We will be bring out a retro fit kit as soon as we see that the lame bib will be accepted by the fencers and continued by the F.I.E. (After this first event I see no reason for them not to continue.) Barry Paul

Superscribe · 01-20-2009, 10:10 AM

I want to make a picture with a 15 yr old foilist getting his neck jabbed in by an older and much bigger foilest. They would both be wearing the new conductive bib. The 15yr old would be recoiling from the impact, and I want the viewer to feel their own trachea crushing a little bit.

Caption: FIE- French for "Let them eat cake."

Would anybody wear that if it was on a t-shirt?

Barry Paul · 01-20-2009, 11:21 AM

I hope you don't take offense but this is just theatrical rubbish. This change in regulation will be good for foil fencing at all levels

Both epee and Sabre have the target as all the mask. If you want to be worried,worry about a point hit at sabre (with the small dia point.) with a blade stiffer than an epee blade.

downunder · 01-20-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superscribe

I want to make a picture with a 15 yr old foilist getting his neck jabbed in by an older and much bigger foilest. They would both be wearing the new conductive bib. The 15yr old would be recoiling from the impact, and I want the viewer to feel their own trachea crushing a little bit.

Caption: FIE- French for "Let them eat cake."

Would anybody wear that if it was on a t-shirt?

If I was getting hit by a big foilist I would rather it be on the 1600N+ padded bib before the jacket than on the 800N jacket and plastron alone.

The bib covers target. The bib is target in the other two weapons, both of which have way stiffer blades.

If we're drawing extremes, the previous incentive would have been to go around or under the bib to land a valid hit, which makes things even more dangerous.

My only concern to the change is the cost to the average fencer and club.