Wisconsin Division - Status

[Greg]

What is going on in the Wisconsin Division. Only one meet is posted and their web site is down today. Anyone have any information on this? Thanks.

[Triton]

We're freezing our bums off.

But seriously, the division site has been down for a while. Supposedly they're working on it.

The Robert Burns tournament is the only one scheduled for now. (So anyone who wants to come to it, that would be great.) I expect there will be a few more events yet to be determined.

[Joe biebel]

Triton is taking up some of the slack in the Wis Div schedule for this year. It seems one of the clubs in the Division that was previously hosting numerous tournaments, did not wish to pay the Division a dollar a head for sanctioned events. They do not wish to host events anymore because of this, if my sources are correct.

Anyway, on the upside, I intend to have at least one fencing event every month starting in January at MSFA. I can't speak to the problem with the division website. All I know is, it did not work and is hosted on/by fencing.net. Our chair is supposed to be following up and getting this fixed.

I just checked it (the website) and it is up again.

If anyone has specific suggestion on what type of events they would like to see, by all means, chime in.

[erooMynohtnA]

I was there yesterday and the site worked, and it's working for me right now.

http://wifencing.org/

Also, what Joe said about the tournament schedule.

[fluidfencer]

A couple of questions:

Was the decision to charge a $1 per fencer fee voted on by the Division members?

What was the reason for the fee?

If approved by the Division members, doesn't the decision to not hold tournaments seem a little silly?

[Triton]

Yes, the fee was voted on at the annual Division meeting. I understand that it's actually a fairly small fee compared to other divisions.

The funds are used to support whatever the Division needs to get done. If that's purchase new equipment, hold a ref seminar, or something like that.

And yes, the decision not to hold tournaments is, in my opinion anyway, silly. Of course, the club in question has their own good reasons, and no amount of arguing could convince them otherwise.

Though I'm new to the Division's politics, it seems to me that it would be wrong to try to force them to do anything they don't want to do.

[catwood1]

...I'm new to the Division's politics...

You should should come to NJ, you'll get the hang of it pretty quick...

[Triton]

From everything I've read in these forums, the NJ Division is the advanced course. I'm fine sticking with the beginner class for now. One thing I have learned, there is no amount of money so small that there isn't someone who wants to tell you how it could have been spent better.

[Eejit]

Triton is taking up some of the slack in the Wis Div schedule for this year. It seems one of the clubs in the Division that was previously hosting numerous tournaments, did not wish to pay the Division a dollar a head for sanctioned events. They do not wish to host events anymore because of this, if my sources are correct.

Anyway, on the upside, I intend to have at least one fencing event every month starting in January at MSFA. I can't speak to the problem with the division website. All I know is, it did not work and is hosted on/by fencing.net. Our chair is supposed to be following up and getting this fixed.

I just checked it (the website) and it is up again.

If anyone has specific suggestion on what type of events they would like to see, by all means, chime in.

Well this is good to hear, I always enjoy Wisconsin tournaments. Just make sure to put them up on AskFred!

[fencerbill]

So who's going to run the qualifiers? If nobody does, nobody goes.

[erooMynohtnA]

The division will host the qualfiers in the same location it always does. Nothing has changed regarding that.

[aamct2]

Milwaukee Sport Fencing Academy has recently added the following events to AskFred.

MSFA Youth Foil - Feb. 15
http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=7834

MSFA Open Foil - Feb. 15
http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=7835

MSFA Dry Non-USFA Foil - Mar. 8
http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=7838

MSFA Foil Team - Mar. 8
http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=7839

[Karinka]

There have been problems within this Division, hence the decision made by the club not to host tournaments. Problems included lack of accountability with respect to Division assets, inadequate and lack of finanacial statements, use of Division assests by one club with an officer majority..hence the club essentially receiving a "subsidy" not afforded other clubs within the Division.
"allowances" made for one club, that weren't allowed others within the Division, etc.

The fee arrangement was agreed upon (by the club no longer hosting tournaments) pending segregation of the Division assets and access to Division financial statements. (It should be noted that the club PAID THE FEES for the previous year's tournament as they were assured the above would be resolved). When that wasn't initially done, a decision was made not to pay any more into the Division. Because of that, the Division would no longer sanction any of the club's tournaments. It's unfortunate as the tournaments were very well run and well attended and fencers from across the Midwest have asked the club to restart the tournaments.

It's a matter of time to see how this plays out.

[erooMynohtnA]

Why is everyone such a pussy about this stuff? Everyone knows who we're talking about, so why not throw out names. It's a legitimate debate. This is a public forum. We are (mostly) adults. I don't see why everyone has to pretend like they're on pins and needles.

The Wisconsin Fencing academy is the club that used to host many tournaments. The venue was too small and there weren't enough referees (any) for it to be called "very well run," but it was the most prolific set of tournaments in Wisconsin, and I think everyone appreciated having them.

As I understand it, the WFA bought all their own scoring equipment, rented their own space, organized their own tournaments, and operated independently without any help from the division.

It is division policy that sanctioned tournaments are charged one dollar per entry. This was voted on and approved before and has been voted on and approved since objections had been raised. This may be a democratic issue of the membership voting, it may be an executive decision of officer decision, or it may be both. I don't know.

I was told the WFA objection was along the "no taxation without representation" avenue. The WFA had paid for everything to run their tournaments, they did not use division equipment, and they ran the vast majority of tournaments within the division. So why should they pay anything?

The division's position was that the rules are the rules. The division membership (through direct referendum or elected representatives, I don't remember) has determined the one dollar sanctioning fee was reasonable. The WFA has to work within the system. Ratings changes and tournament results do have to run through the division.

The subsidy referenced may be Caliburn, or it may be Catholic Memorial High School. I'm not sure. I think both those clubs store division equipment. Both are clubs to which division officers belong. I am not sure whether they use them during practice or not, but the implication of the above post certainly seems to be that they do?

There's a lot of other back story that I'm leaving out that I have heard second hand and I can't remember well enough to recite faithfully. Plus, only people from the NJ division probably want to read through it.

I would like to say I have no eggs in this basket, but I have ties to both sides. The division chair is my coach, and I am friends with many fencers in the Wisconsin Fencing Academy, Caliburn, Catholic Memorial, and many other Wisconsin clubs. This dispute is destructive to the division, and the sooner it ends the better. I have a great deal of respect for both factions, but I am unhappy with the behavior of both.

I enjoyed the WFA tournaments, and I would like to see the WFA host tournaments again. I think the WFA argument is a valid one. However, I also think the division stance is reasonable. What we need is a lot more discussion and mutual compromise.

What we don't need is vague implications of impropriety.

[Karinka]

Per the previous post..."The division's position was that the rules are the rules".

With all due respect, when an entire Division sponsored tournament (Wisconsin Closed Championships) is run without one single weight test done , a tournament in which ratings were earned and issued, it's easy to understand the WFA's frustration with the selective application of "rules are rules".

[DangerMouse]

To be honest, it doesn't sound like much has changed since I lived in WI except that WFA didn't exist then. Attending a USFA sanctioned event really didn't mean much because the paperwork for classification changes would never get submitted. I really can't complain too much though because only about half of the tournament entry fee checks I wrote were ever deposited.

[erooMynohtnA]

Per the previous post..."The division's position was that the rules are the rules".

With all due respect, when an entire Division sponsored tournament (Wisconsin Closed Championships) is run without one single weight test done , a tournament in which ratings were earned and issued, it's easy to understand the WFA's frustration with the selective application of "rules are rules".

No one in the WI division has ever done a mask punch test either. If you would like to push for those regulations being applied, push for those. These are separate issues, and throwing them out is a red herring.

[davesaint]

Per the previous post..."The division's position was that the rules are the rules".

With all due respect, when an entire Division sponsored tournament (Wisconsin Closed Championships) is run without one single weight test done , a tournament in which ratings were earned and issued, it's easy to understand the WFA's frustration with the selective application of "rules are rules".

Interesting. I know that when I have attended the Turkey Meet, weights and shims were used for epee, and weights were used for foil. Maybe it was just on your strip.


Dave

[Karinka]

At the Turkey Meet, weights and shims were used...None were used at the Closed Championships.....

[erooMynohtnA]

The WI championships, JO qualifiers, div II/III qualifiers, and whatever else is open only to division members typically have a very small draw. As such, they're usually run pretty casually. I can't comment about which ones in particular didn't use weights or when, because they all run together for me. The argument isn't whether or not it happens; it certainly does.

I also think that isn't the reason the WFA no longer hosts tournaments.

If the lack of weight testing is a major concern, I suggest bringing it up at the next division meeting. I imagine the division officers would be receptive of such a minor issue.