Practice vs. Competition

[Jvanhousen]

Ha, I wish I only had a 'practice' and 'competition' mode when I was working w/ my coach.
The fencing season was divided into sections w/ specific assignments. First part of the season the orders were to absolutely not think about winning, work only on a specific aspect of our game such as defense, offense, second intention, etc., while in a (divisional) tournament setting. Later, we were allowed to try to win, but only using specific actions. If it was a '1-2' day, we had to prepare our opponent so that an attack or repost w/ a 1-2 would succeed. Or we were to try to make every bout get to 4-4 or 14-14 so we were forced to come up w/ a plan for the last touch based on what went before.
Only about 2 months before Div. Quals. were we turned loose.
My (Russian) coach thought most American students lacked the discipline to follow these strategies, but I think it was more a case of having to travel a 100 miles to events then not being allowed to give it your all.

[Lady Quindecim]

Ok... I may should lay out some clarification... When I go for a touch, practice or otherwise, I always go for the touch - be it 0-0, 4-0, 0-14. But where trying to win differs from practice is the "set-up". I am short. I am quick and have good point control, but distance is an issue. In practice I may challenge my distance, knowing that it will be harder, knowing that my opponent knows that I am going to be attacking from further out, making it even easier for her/him. But I always push for the touch. Some days, in practice, I try to out psych my opponent - who I fence all the time and who knows me well. But I still push for the touch.

Ok... so now that we are all clear on that. thanks.. Time to go practice. Like fur-shur. Totally. To the max.

[Inquartata]

In fact, I can't think of any level fencer that would not benefit from embracing this idea.

Heh. If you think that you have discovered a teaching idea that will work with everyone, I think that delusion may have entered the picture.

I used to tutor athletes back in college. I learned pretty quickly that there are multiple learning styles, and none worked with every student...

[rdg]

When going to tournaments, I often find myself in practice mode when I should be in competition mode.
Tomas

Brother Tomas, you and me both.

About a week before a big event, I noticed the most competitive fencers amoungst us switch to 'competition mode'. That means aggression. Allow no touches. Stop practicing the obscure touch that you heretofore haven't quite made. And focus on the few things that work.

Also I tune up all of my weapons.

Sam

[Inquartata]

And yet, oddly, many of my best performances in competition have come when I either did not care about winning or felt that I was so outclassed that I might as well just focus on fencing correctly and not embarrassing myself too badly...

There is also something to be said for consistency. It is proverbial in some other disciplines that "You will fight the way you train to fight". If you are always in one mode---the winning mode---you will not have the problem of switching between them, or rather of being unable to do so.

Of course, this will also give you one less excuse to cite when you do poorly.

[Ordway]

I would say that you need to practice, at the club, whatever it is that you need to be able to do in competition.

That differs for different fencers, and at different times in their training; it also includes technical, tactical, and psychological elements, all of which are "practiced" in different ways.

For technical skills, I find that the best way to practice-for-competition is to do drills. Not necessarily the standing drills that most people learn in class, but a more dynamic kind of quasi-bouting. For instance, a teammate and I will agree that for 5 touches I will only do attacks, then it will switch and he will attack and I will defend. That way, each of us gets to practice something (attack, defense) without having to worry about the overall tactical picture, but the dril has a much more realistic feel.

For tactical skills, bouting is key, but it doesn't necessarily have to be 100% effort bouting.

For psychology, it probably differs vastly among fencers as to what they need. For me, I have learned that I must train at 100% athleticism during practice time if I am to be able to "turn it on" in a competition. Fortunately I have a couple of teammates who have come to the same conclusion and we are able to hammer & force each other to up our game. It has been having beneficial results.

[Lefty Belgian]

In my fencing class today, my teacher brought up something I've been rolling over in my head for a while: The difference between being in "practice mode" and "competition mode", where "practice mode" involves much more experimentation and introspection, and "competition mode" involves doing whatever it takes to get the next touch.

My open question to the board is: What are some things you do in competition mode, but not practice? Vice-versa? How do you get yourself into the right mindset, and what are some succinct approaches that you take depending on the situation?

This is certainly a question worth rolling over in one's head but I think there is a difference in answers depending on the level of the fencer. Most of the respondents so far are Senior Members who may be fencing at an adult level. From the perspective of a parent of a youth fencer, practice mode can be difficult to obtain. Younger fencers, particularly pre-teens, always want to "win" even if it is in club bouts and informal contests. My observation is that the better youth fencers are those that can set aside their competitive edge to better learn skills that will propel them forward in the future.

I also do not think that there is such a definitive line between practice mode in club classes and clinics versus competitive mode in usfa tournaments. Again, from the perspective of a youth fencer, it is often only at tournaments that a young fencer can compete against fencer's at his/her level or better. This means that practicing new actions has a tremendously greater payoff since the attempts are against better fencers and truly hone the new skill. To reserve practicing new actions and techniques in a non-competitive class setting or even in a club clinic is not necessarily the best way to hone new skills. If one can maturely (and I admit this is rare) pull back a bit and view at least local tournaments as an opportunity to try new things, even if they result in some losses, the opportunities for growth are limitless.

My son's coach is not a huge follower of youth tournaments. He supports his student's efforts and successes in tournaments but does not often attend and does not lavish praise for success. Before each tournament, however, he will teach the competitor a new action to try in competition. His first question after the tournament is not "how did you do?", but rather "did you attempt the new action?" In this way young fencers get to up their game against more competitive and varied fencers while attempting and honing new actions that may someday be their bread and butter in far more important competitions.

[dharmaqueen]

Well said LB.

[magic_moose]

And yet, oddly, many of my best performances in competition have come when I either did not care about winning or felt that I was so outclassed that I might as well just focus on fencing correctly and not embarrassing myself too badly...

Nothing odd about it. In those cases you were relaxed. When relaxed, one always fences better.

I find I fence better in those circumstances too.

[Rick Shellhouse]

I always tell my fencers a story....

Fencer A and Fencer B are at club one evening.....They each take their lesson and then go out to the strip...Fencer B is destroying Fencer A.. just attacks flying left and right...

The next day at a local tournament

Fencer A and Fencer B come up against each other in the semi finals....Fencer A destroys Fencer B, crying out in anguish Fencer B states he should have won he beat Fencer A all night the night before...to which Fencer A states "But I wasn't competing last night I was bouting"

I explain to my fencers that bouting is fencing with the intent of perfecting some technique...be it tempo...distance or whatever....

Competing is use of all of the above with the intent to win...

R

[nahouw]

Beautiful!!

[piste off]

An important point, and one not really surfaced here, is that practice and competition are by nature two different things.

For example comps are held over a much longer timeframe than even your longest practice session - which has a number of implications such as the importance of learning to peak for bouts and managing your physical and mental state over the course of a long day. There is a lot of downtime between bouts in a comp, whereas you have more control over how you time your bouts during a practice session. Learning to manage the peaks and valleys over the course of a long day is only learned by doing it – a lot.

Another example would be learning to fence under pressure. Obviously fencing your buddies at the club is different from being on the raised strip with a hundred people watching. Add to that the fact that you are facing people you may not have seen before even makes it more difficult. Replicating that environment is next to impossible in a practice session.

The bottom line is that a good fencer must learn to manage themselves under tournament conditions. You can do all the practice drills you want, but the only way to gain this experience is to fence in a lot of competitions and recognize that fact. Over time, the things you learn will add up to a competitive advantage, and you’ll learn that the details matter.

R-

[Lady Quindecim]

This is going to sound funny, but I will often spend my lunch outside the band hall, listening to the music. I heard something a while back and my brain has been trying to get me to remember it since this thread came up.

Practice on your own to be ready for rehearsal.
Rehearse to be ready for performance.
There is this third level of mindset introduced here that I think about while bouting even though I had lost where it came from.

This idea come from the understanding that people perform what they practice. i.e. habits, good or bad, will tend to carry over into competition or performance or whatever it is that really counts. But, especially with music, there are things you have to learn before you are ready to rehearse. Actors study lines before a run through or rehearsal. Fencers have private lessons, but we still need that lab time to work on [stuff] in a "safe" setting.

So, when at club, or whatever, we will have a pool, or DE, or team bouts.. these are rehearsal. They are treated as competition.

This I think is a piece of vernacular missing from the fencing lexicon.