Saber Lames

[Enh4nc3d5p4rk]

I've been looking into saber lames and I really need a new one. I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to three:

Allstar - $229.
BG Stainless Steel - $169.
Edge - $195.

I have a bunch of friends who fence and they all have Allstar lames. However, they have been fencing 3-5 years while I've only fenced for ~8-10 months. Not to brag, but I think I am progressing faster than any of them did. On topic, my coach told me to get the BG since I only recently started and I don't need a super expensive one.

However, the Allstar is only $60 more and from what I hear, loads better than the BG one. I haven't heard of anyone with the Edge lame but on the site, it says it's only 245 grams. As far as I know, that's lighter than both the Allstar and the BG.

I need some advice choosing the best lame. I'd appreciate if you can tell me which one is the best one, and if you've had one of the three, what you thought of it. By that I mean, was it: a) light. b) comfortable. c)durable.

I need to factor those three components because I can't afford to buy a lame every few months. At most, one every year and a half, preferably every two years.

[Nolano]

Note that my lame experience is pretty limited, so most of what I say is based on observation and listening to other people.
The Allstar will most likely last the longest. I;ve heard decent things about the Edge lames. My coach claims that a BG lame will last between one and two years, while a nicer one will last 2-3.

[Enh4nc3d5p4rk]

Thanks, I find that actaully enormously helpful. I really want the Allstar lame because I've heard so many good things about it. I'm still kinda iffy, though, because of the price. I'm afraid it won't be what I'm expecting, or last as long as I wanted it too.

[chinbeard]

I've been looking into saber lames and I really need a new one. I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to three:

Allstar - $229.
BG Stainless Steel - $169.
Edge - $195.

I have a bunch of friends who fence and they all have Allstar lames. However, they have been fencing 3-5 years while I've only fenced for ~8-10 months. Not to brag, but I think I am progressing faster than any of them did. On topic, my coach told me to get the BG since I only recently started and I don't need a super expensive one.

However, the Allstar is only $60 more and from what I hear, loads better than the BG one. I haven't heard of anyone with the Edge lame but on the site, it says it's only 245 grams. As far as I know, that's lighter than both the Allstar and the BG.

I need some advice choosing the best lame. I'd appreciate if you can tell me which one is the best one, and if you've had one of the three, what you thought of it. By that I mean, was it: a) light. b) comfortable. c)durable.

I need to factor those three components because I can't afford to buy a lame every few months. At most, one every year and a half, preferably every two years.

if you don't choose leon paul, the forum will never forgive you. i got a tca ultralight foil lame, and it seems ok, although the cut could be more flattering.

[Enh4nc3d5p4rk]

Is it actually really light?

[Morale Officer]

Both my foil and sabre lames are Escrime. They fit very well...in fact they were the only company to work with me to get the fit I need (as I'm basically built like a linebacker). I have had BG lames before and have had no complaints. I do have to say though, that I definitely prefer my Escrime Lames over the BG. Yes, you'll pay a lot more for them, but to me, it was worth the expense (the customer service was wonderful).

[Nolano]

The ultra light lames that a lot of people are selling is a lame typically made from a different kind of fabric which is lighter and smoother. Leon Paul was the first to sell them, and while they're expensive($280) I've seen a lot of people swear by them as the best, both for lightness and also for longevity.
BG(as edge), Absolute, and TCA all sell similar lames, although none boast similar durability, and the Absolute lames are supposed to be especially bad.

[springdon]

Along with price, there are several factors to consider. Here are at least two:

1) Fit

You need to take an honest look at your body. Allstar seems to be tailored for a very slim 12 year old boy, or the French national team (with Nicolas Lopez, who is self reported as 6 feet and 145 pounds.) I am a former linebacker and Allstar never really worked for me.

Uhlmann and Leon Paul have a huskier -- hmmmmm, let's agree to call it "athletic" -- shape. BGs are usually pretty roomy too, as they are more of a broad audience product and not meant to have a tailored look, as far as I can tell.

2)Durability

Allstars used to be great, back in the 1990s. Recently, there have been some concerns that their production values have gone down.

One big set of questions is: how much do you sweat and what is the Ph of your sweat. I sweat a lot and the Ph means that with the lower end of the quality scale -- your bottom absolutes, BGs, etc. I get the dreaded "green ring" pretty fast. Are you a heavy sweater in a hot gym? If so, you need to go upmarket or be prepared to do a lot of maintenance.

The Absolute ultralight -- I have had two -- feels great to me, looks great to me, and has the durability of kleenex. They just stop working. Bam. Dead. The LP is ultralight is awesome -- light and durable as a tank. Fits great too, you just have to get used to the color. Which is not great.

So, if you are relatively slim, and don't have corrosive sweat, an Allstar might be perfect . . .

[SJCFU#2]

So, if you are relatively slim, and don't have corrosive sweat, an Allstar might be perfect . . .

And if you aren't that slim but still want an Allstar then you might consider Uhlmann - usually about the only differences between Allstar and Uhlmann are the cut and the color of the trim (red vs blue).

As far as which lame to choose, just about any stainless steel lame will last longer than a cheap copper-based ones (these are the ones that tend to turn green). Beyond that it comes down to cost (you tend to pay more for a name brand), fit (cut varies dramatically between manufacturers), and quality of fabrication (you may or may not get what you pay for).

As others have noted, there are also lightweight lames which use a conductive fabric rather than copper or stainless steel. These have their own advantages and disadvantages. My quick summary would be that Leon Paul is generally considered to make the best while Absolute's tend to fail far too quickly (hopefully their clearance sale is intended to make room for a new, more durable model).

[Enh4nc3d5p4rk]

Thank you all for your input so quickly. I think I'm going to go with the Allstar, because it is, from what I hear, the most durable of the 3. I can't buy a Leon Paul because Blue-Gauntlet doesn't carry it in stores. I think I'll look at the Allstar and the Blue-Gauntlet, see what's comfiest and buy accordingly. Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[AndrewH]

I'm giving this advice based on the assumption that you will be continuing in the sport for several years.

Avoid BG & Absolute. BG lames are low quality and will turn green quickly, especially if you're using them several times a week and don't let it dry out. Absolute ultralights tend to fail very quickly, like within a year. Just hearsay, but hearsay from armorers who have failed lots of them.

Spend the extra money and get the Allstar. Yes, it's expensive. But it will outlast every "budget" lame out there. My last Allstar, I got it junior year of college, while I was fencing on an NCAA team. I kept using after graduation, for both practice several times a week and for competition. It JUST failed at the last NAC, at slightly older than 2 years. For a lame that got used heavily 3-4 times a week and hardly ever washed, that's really good. In fact, it still works fine for practice, it just doesn't meet competition standards. So now I use that one for practice and my new Allstar (got another because they're worth the money) is just for competition use, which should extend its lifespan until I stop fencing entirely.

Get the Allstar lame, and get an FIE mask. Everything else you can save money on.

[catwood1]

There is the absolute signature lame as an option. This advertises a higher metal by thread count than any other lame. If it fails within a year, they will replace it for free.

I don't have any knowledge on the lifespan of this lame. I was interested, so that is the one I went with.

[Enh4nc3d5p4rk]

I'm giving this advice based on the assumption that you will be continuing in the sport for several years.

Avoid BG & Absolute. BG lames are low quality and will turn green quickly, especially if you're using them several times a week and don't let it dry out. Absolute ultralights tend to fail very quickly, like within a year. Just hearsay, but hearsay from armorers who have failed lots of them.

Spend the extra money and get the Allstar. Yes, it's expensive. But it will outlast every "budget" lame out there. My last Allstar, I got it junior year of college, while I was fencing on an NCAA team. I kept using after graduation, for both practice several times a week and for competition. It JUST failed at the last NAC, at slightly older than 2 years. For a lame that got used heavily 3-4 times a week and hardly ever washed, that's really good. In fact, it still works fine for practice, it just doesn't meet competition standards. So now I use that one for practice and my new Allstar (got another because they're worth the money) is just for competition use, which should extend its lifespan until I stop fencing entirely.

Get the Allstar lame, and get an FIE mask. Everything else you can save money on.

I already have a nice mask that I think can last me a really long time, I don't see any signs of fatigue at all and it's been nearly a year. My lame on the other hand, in one word, is gross. I can't wash it either because it isn't stainless steel. I think I'm going to take everyone's advice and buy myself an Allstar lame. Thanks for the input.

[Nolano]

Again, also check the Uhlmann, as the only difference between them is the trim and the fit. If the Allstar doesn't fit well, try the Uhlmann.

[SJCFU#2]

My lame on the other hand, in one word, is gross. I can't wash it either because it isn't stainless steel.

Who told you that you couldn't wash your current lame because it isn't stainless steel?

Any lame will benefit from a regular rinsing with clean water to remove the residue left by dried sweat (in the case of some "washable" lames doing anything more than that may be a bad idea). You may have to wash your copper-based lame by hand but even a stainless steel lame shouldn't be thrown into the washing machine. See the "Ask the Expert" section of Fencing.net (click here) or the HOM Fencing's home page (click here) for instructions on how to clean both your existing lame (which you may want to keep for use in practice) and your new one (which should help keep it working for a long time).

[Applesauce and Foils]

I just got the BG Edge lame. It's realllllyyy nice feeling compared to all the other scratchy and stiff lames that I've worn. Which include an Absolute Fencing foil lame, and various club lames.
The Edge feels like silk. It's also a lot COOLER temperature wise, and I just love it.
However- since I just got this thing and used it . . .twice, I have no idea how durable it is/is going to be. But I love it and I'm glad I shelled out the money for it.

As a sidenote, I've found that the Absolute Fencing lame is not all that bad. It's a little on the scratchy/rough side, but it's not failed me yet and I've had it two years. The one I bought was their very most basic one. (Read cheapest).

Hope you find one you like!
AF

[brtech]

We really don't yet have enough experience with the Edge to know how reliable it is. So far, it's looking pretty good. It's already much better than the AF ultralight.

The Uhlmann/Allstar lames do not seem to have suffered in the transition to overseas outsourcing. I don't see any difference in reliability or lifetime, and it's been long enough to judge. They are fine lames, and you still see a lot of high performance fencers who use them.

The LP ultralight is still my pick for the best lame. Its very reliable, light, and fits most fencers well. It does pick up a lot of scuff marks, but they don't seem to affect the conductivity.

Ditto on advice to wash lames regularly. Also note that lifetime is seriously affected by how you store them. Hanging is best. Rolling in a towel is next best. Wadding in a ball is no where near as good, but is better than folding if you have a stainless steel lame like the Uhlmann/Allstar. Folding is the worst, especially if you fold it the same way every time. It's metal wire threads folks, if you fold wire repeatedly in the same place, what happens to it? Why it breaks of course! Folding is not so bad for the ultralights because there are no metal fibers that can break.

[fencerbill]

Also note that lifetime is seriously affected by how you store them. Hanging is best. Rolling in a towel is next best. Wadding in a ball is no where near as good, but is better than folding if you have a stainless steel lame like the Uhlmann/Allstar. Folding is the worst, especially if you fold it the same way every time. It's metal wire threads folks, if you fold wire repeatedly in the same place, what happens to it? Why it breaks of course! Folding is not so bad for the ultralights because there are no metal fibers that can break.

Second the comment of folding as the cause for Lame conductive thread breaks. Further evidence of this is the frequent conductivity failures of Sabre Lames in the armpits and the elbow areas. Conductive thread can be used for repairs in the armpits. Elbow repairs are more difficult. To use a sewing machine you just about have to undo a sleeve seam.

Reminder: Foil Lames have traditionally been hung on hangers inside out to dry. For Sabre Lames, hang them inside out to dry. BUT DON'T TURN THE SLEEVES INSIDE OUT. The constant bending will hasten wear because of bending the threads. Leave the sleeves hanging inside, they don't get as wet anyway.

[Inquartata]

So...er...why do new lames come from the manufacturer, or at least the vendor, folded?

[SJCFU#2]

So...er...why do new lames come from the manufacturer, or at least the vendor, folded?

Because folding a new lame makes it easier to ship and they probably figure that folding it just one time probably won't do too much damage (it usually takes repeated folding and straightening to break the metal threads).

Either that or you've stumbled across their plan to make sure that lames don't last too long (otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell you a new one every few years).