Sword in the Snow

[ThatGuy]

Does anyone know where the results are? I know Dan Holley won the Y-14 mens foil, but does anyone know where to find the complete results?

[epeemike81]

Does anyone know where the results are? I know Dan Holley won the Y-14 mens foil, but does anyone know where to find the complete results?

AskFRED? no, I guess not...

-m

[joralemon]

Does anyone know where the results are? I know Dan Holley won the Y-14 mens foil, but does anyone know where to find the complete results?

google sword in the snow to get the link to the result, but they're usually not up til after all the events are over. Probably Monday or Tues

[Enh4nc3d5p4rk]

Jen Yamin of New Jersey won first place for Women's Foil, as well.

[disaster]

Y14 WF results

1. Jennifer Yamin New Jersey
2. Julia Lee New Jersey
3. Liana Yamin New Jersey
3. Azaline Dunlop-Smith New England
5. Hali Nelson New England
6. Sophia Holmqvist New Jersey
7. Samantha Lee Metro NYC
8. Amanda Lalazarian Long Island

[lurkerdad]

FYI the results are up in the Sword in the Snow website. Just final standings though, no pool or DE results unfortunately.

With regards to the Boy's Foil results, I must say that the results seem a little "random" even given the standard unpredictability associated with youth fencing. My gut feel on this (though I wasn't there of course) is that when this happens, the refereeing was also probably a little more "random" than usual too.

[telkanuru]

My gut feel on this (though I wasn't there of course) is that when this happens, the refereeing was also probably a little more random than usual too.

IIRC, the majority of the "referees" hired for the event are drawn from UNH "fencers" in order to make it a team fundraiser, so that could explain that.

[joralemon]

FYI the results are up in the Sword in the Snow website. Just final standings though, no pool or DE results unfortunately.

With regards to the Boy's Foil results, I must say that the results seem a little "random" even given the standard unpredictability associated with youth fencing. My gut feel on this (though I wasn't there of course) is that when this happens, the refereeing was also probably a little more "random" than usual too.

can you be more specific? maybe due to presence of Danish fencers?

[epeemike81]

FYI the results are up in the Sword in the Snow website. Just final standings though, no pool or DE results unfortunately.

With regards to the Boy's Foil results, I must say that the results seem a little "random" even given the standard unpredictability associated with youth fencing. My gut feel on this (though I wasn't there of course) is that when this happens, the refereeing was also probably a little more "random" than usual too.

There was indeed a heavy degree of randomness in the refereeing. In addition to hiring referees who I wouldn't hire, they actually managed to find quite a few referees that I've never seen before. That's pretty impressive.

-m

[10gallonhat]

FYI the results are up in the Sword in the Snow website. Just final standings though, no pool or DE results unfortunately.

With regards to the Boy's Foil results, I must say that the results seem a little "random" even given the standard unpredictability associated with youth fencing. My gut feel on this (though I wasn't there of course) is that when this happens, the refereeing was also probably a little more "random" than usual too.

Having watched a large number of the boys Y12 and Y14 foil events, I think we can chalk up the "randomness" in Y12 to two fencers who performed unexpectedly well: T. Berg from the Netherlands and G. Tourette who shocked every fencer he faced. Jarred Gou's antics upon losing in Y12 should have had him blackcarded and removed from the venue, that was the only clear mistake by a referee. he is experienced in national events, throwing you mask and weapon then refusing to shake hands with the victor was extremely poor form. The Y14 results seemed pretty in-line if you accept that no one predicted two fencers from the Netherlands in the top 16.

[joralemon]

Having watched a large number of the boys Y12 and Y14 foil events, I think we can chalk up the "randomness" in Y12 to two fencers who performed unexpectedly well: T. Berg from the Netherlands and G. Tourette who shocked every fencer he faced. Jarred Gou's antics upon losing in Y12 should have had him blackcarded and removed from the venue, that was the only clear mistake by a referee. he is experienced in national events, throwing you mask and weapon then refusing to shake hands with the victor was extremely poor form. The Y14 results seemed pretty in-line if you accept that no one predicted two fencers from the Netherlands in the top 16.

I didn't see Jarred, but I totally agree about Tourette (esp since my kid was one of the fencers he "shocked!"). That's why I was wondering about the original post. Did he/she mean all boys foil or just the 12s. Was there anything "random" in Y10 or Y14?

[epeemike81]

that was the only clear mistake by a referee.

That you saw, perhaps...

I saw MANY clear mistakes by referees. btw, since you're making assertions about the quality of the refereeing, I'd like to know how much weight I should grant that opinion. who are you?

-m

[10gallonhat]

That you saw, perhaps...

I saw MANY clear mistakes by referees. btw, since you're making assertions about the quality of the refereeing, I'd like to know how much weight I should grant that opinion. who are you?

-m

I make a distinction between a "mistake" and an incorrect call. In the case of an incorrect call the referee has two options, has tried their best and gotten it wrong......these things happen, I'm used to it. In this case of a "mistake", there was only one correct action and it wasn't taken.

[epeemike81]

I make a distinction between a "mistake" and an incorrect call. In the case of an incorrect call the referee has two options, has tried their best and gotten it wrong......these things happen, I'm used to it. In this case of a "mistake", there was only one correct action and it wasn't taken.

Fine, then I saw way too many "incorrect calls".

-m

[Fioretto]

Jarred Gou's antics upon losing in Y12 should have had him blackcarded and removed from the venue, that was the only clear mistake by a referee. he is experienced in national events, throwing you mask and weapon then refusing to shake hands with the victor was extremely poor form.

This is unacceptable behavior -- especially from a fencer that is already representing the US in overseas cadet events!
Thread:
Cabries Cadet MF--Too Many Fencers?

What example does this set for the newer, younger and more inexperienced fencers? How was good sportsmanship exhibited here? Isn't it a requirement to shake hands?

[Lefty Belgian]

With regards to the Boy's Foil results, I must say that the results seem a little "random" even given the standard unpredictability associated with youth fencing. My gut feel on this (though I wasn't there of course) is that when this happens, the refereeing was also probably a little more "random" than usual too. [/QUOTE]


Perhaps I am missing the boat here, but wouldn't all fencers in Y12, to a greater or lesser degree, be affected by such "randomness" in the directing? My limited experience is that the directing is always a bit porous at Youth events. I have yet to attend a Youth tournament where there wasn't a "wackadoo" director, blown calls or outright mistakes relative to USFA regulations.

However, barring a specific, critical mistake by a director in a tight bout, the "randmoness" appeared to be pretty evenly spread.

Were there specific mistakes of which anyone who attended is aware that materially shaped the outcome of any of the UNH tournaments?

Sans this, I am with 10Gallon and Joralemon who pointed out that 2 fencers did unexpectedly dramatically well in Y12 (Tourette and Berg) and that there was a sizeable contingent from Denmark which actually placed 4 in the Top 12 and 6 in the Top 32.

[telkanuru]

"Random" doesn't mean "equally unfair".

For example, if you're very good at parry-riposte, and you get a director who calls everything your opponent's beat attack, that's going to upset something.

[Lefty Belgian]

"Random" doesn't mean "equally unfair".

For example, if you're very good at parry-riposte, and you get a director who calls everything your opponent's beat attack, that's going to upset something.

That may be logically true, but I have yet to hear from anyone who was actually at the UNH event, which I was, that the refereeing materially affected the outcome of the event.

It is far more likely that empirical circumstances such as the the spectacular performances of Tourette and Berg, and the presence of the Danish fencers, resulted in a less predictable ("random") outcome.

Interestingly, my son and I attempted to handicap the Y12MF before we came up to NH. Filtering out the Danish fencers, we picked 5 of the remaining 7 in the Top 10. This is less a testimony to our handicapping acumen, than it is to the probability that top fencers finish at the top regardless of "randomness" in refereeing. N.B. We did not predict either Berg or Tourette's ascendance.

[Superscribe]

Crap. So it wasn't the Tourette guy who threw a tantrum? I would have gotten a real kick out of that.

I would agree that at that age, an unusual interpretation of a fencing action probably effects kids very differently. Further, I also think younger kids are less prepared to effectively change up fundamental actions to adapt to said unusual interpretations.

[Lefty Belgian]

[QUOTE=Superscribe;765023]Crap. So it wasn't the Tourette guy who threw a tantrum? I would have gotten a real kick out of that.


It's funny that you say that. My son also fenced Y10. He was hanging out with Rusty Fields before the final match when Tourette comes up to them and says to Fields, "If you don't change your strategy, I'm going to kick your butt". Where does this stuff come from?!

Fortunately, the results reflected sportsmanship that day.