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Thread: Sword in the Snow

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fioretto View Post
    This is unacceptable behavior -- especially from a fencer that is already representing the US in overseas cadet events!
    Thread:
    Cabries Cadet MF--Too Many Fencers?

    What example does this set for the newer, younger and more inexperienced fencers? How was good sportsmanship exhibited here? Isn't it a requirement to shake hands?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty Belgian View Post
    It's funny that you say that. My son also fenced Y10. He was hanging out with Rusty Fields before the final match when Tourette comes up to them and says to Fields, "If you don't change your strategy, I'm going to kick your butt". Where does this stuff come from?!

    Fortunately, the results reflected sportsmanship that day.
    That behavior won't get them very far. They've now put HUGE targets on their backs and every youth fencer out there will be trying very hard to kick their butts!! I'd like to see where Gou and Tourette end up in a couple of years. My guess is that it won't be very far!

    Keep playing fair and keep being good sportsmen -- it will get you much farther in fencing and in life.

  2. #22
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    Wait a minute-a 1997 attended the Cabries Cadet in France?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fioretto View Post
    This is unacceptable behavior -- especially from a fencer that is already representing the US in overseas cadet events!
    Thread:
    Cabries Cadet MF--Too Many Fencers?

    What example does this set for the newer, younger and more inexperienced fencers? How was good sportsmanship exhibited here? Isn't it a requirement to shake hands?
    Can someone explain this to me? How is it that Jarred Gou (1997) attended the Cadet World Cup In France? I thought you HAD to be 13 years of age regardless of where you are on points list?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    Can someone explain this to me? How is it that Jarred Gou (1997) attended the Cadet World Cup In France? I thought you HAD to be 13 years of age regardless of where you are on points list?
    It seems that he participated as a walk-in, not as part of any official US fencing contingent. His clubmates attended as part of the US contingent and he and his family decided to go too. Anybody's kid could do it too if they had the desire and the money and time to burn. It's just like some kid from Canada attending our NAC's. If you read the thread, I recall somebody mentioning that the age-limit for that tournament was 12.
    Last edited by lurkerdad; 01-14-2009 at 06:28 PM. Reason: addition

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=Lefty Belgian;765026]
    Quote Originally Posted by Superscribe View Post
    Crap. So it wasn't the Tourette guy who threw a tantrum? I would have gotten a real kick out of that.


    It's funny that you say that. My son also fenced Y10. He was hanging out with Rusty Fields before the final match when Tourette comes up to them and says to Fields, "If you don't change your strategy, I'm going to kick your butt". Where does this stuff come from?!

    Fortunately, the results reflected sportsmanship that day.
    Not very sportsmanlike, and also not very smart to tell your opponent his weakness before the bout. Did it actually cause Fields to change his strategy though?
    Last edited by lurkerdad; 01-14-2009 at 06:26 PM. Reason: addition

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    New Math ? Jarred Gou is still eleven for a World Cup !

    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerdad View Post
    If you read the thread, I recall somebody mentioning that the age-limit for that tournament was 12.

    Last I checked 2008 -1997 still makes Jarred Gou 11 years old NOT 12.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    Last I checked 2008 -1997 still makes Jarred Gou 11 years old NOT 12.
    Oops, sorry you're correct. If you read the thread, someone says that: "since it's not an FIE event, it's up to the organizer if they want to lower age-restrictions." Which seems to be what they did. The M-Team probably has a fair amount of pull with a lot of European organizers, given their head coach and the many fencers they send to competitions over there regularly.

    Oh, and one thing: It seems you don't *have* to be 13 to be part of the official US Cadet contingent. The M-Team's Alex M. and N. Bravo were only 12 in 2006 but they were there that year because they were already high up on the MF Cadet points list at that age.
    Last edited by lurkerdad; 01-14-2009 at 06:48 PM. Reason: add quotes

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=lurkerdad;765067]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty Belgian View Post

    Not very sportsmanlike, and also not very smart to tell your opponent his weakness before the bout. Did it actually cause Fields to change his strategy though?

    No he did not change strategy. To his credit, he totally shrugged it off. My observation is that Tourette may have been attempting a bit of reverse psychology. Field's style is much more aggressive, usually on the attack, than most of the Y10 field. This style caused Tourette to alter his more "skilled", action-oriented style. The result was that Fields had him off balance most of the match. The results tell the tale.

  8. #28
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    Birth Years for European Cadet Circuit Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    Can someone explain this to me? How is it that Jarred Gou (1997) attended the Cadet World Cup In France? I thought you HAD to be 13 years of age regardless of where you are on points list?
    I realize this is thread drift but....

    The FIE has a 13 year rule for Jr. World Cups but these cadet events are not FIE events nor are they World Cups; they are local cadet events. For this season fencers must be born 1992 or later. It appears that the European Cadet Circuit does not have a minimum age requirement since there are fencers with birth years of 1992 - 1997 on the European Cadet Rankings.
    http://www.eurofencing.info/EfcEng/C...mpetitions.htm

    For example check out the invitation for the Cadet ME/WE in Gothenburg in February. No FIE licence required, fencers born 1992 or later, entries must be made via the ECF website.
    http://www.vigor-challenge.se/eng/start.asp

    Whether someone entering these competitions on their own is awarded domestic points is another issue. In the case of WF/WE there is no maximum number of US entrants, so anyone making 32 would be awarded domestic points. (No FIE points.)

    So interesting enough, although a fencer born in 1996 or 1997 may be unable to fence in cadet events in the US, they may be able to fence in Europe and in the case of women's epee and women's foil, since the only eligibility criteria is having fenced in a Y14 or Cadet, fencers too young to fence here, can fence internationally.

    (Depending on the airfare, hotels, etc. unbelievable as it may seem in some cases, it may be cheaper to fly to Europe to fence rather than enter a domestic national event considering the entry fee in Europe is 10 Euros compared to $120.00 here. Events are always on weekends, another plus.)
    Last edited by teacup; 01-14-2009 at 06:55 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerdad View Post
    Oops, sorry you're correct. If you read the thread, someone says that: "since it's not an FIE event, it's up to the organizer if they want to lower age-restrictions." Which seems to be what they did. The M-Team probably has a fair amount of pull with a lot of European organizers, given their head coach and the many fencers they send to competitions over there regularly.
    Is this true? Does anyone else thinks this screams unfair? When I asked if my kid could go last year I was told "no, they have to be 13 years old'. It's good to know that now I can send my kid when he turns 11 since the Massialas Foundation has set the precedent by sending their fencers who are under 12 years of age.

    We should also pass the word around - I'm sure the Cabries Cadet fencers would love it if 50-100 eleven year olds show up to fence.

  10. #30
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    Teacup -just wanted to say thanks for info.

    Quote Originally Posted by teacup View Post
    I realize this is thread drift but....

    I think what is upsetting is that I specifically asked the USFA if he could attend and was told categorically "No - He could not. " Now it is clear he could have.

  11. #31
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    From teacup's reply, it seems that just about any US kid can join these European Cadet Circuit events. So no, it's not unfair if that's the case. All you need is money and time.

    It's interesting to see how many US kids will go next year, now that the word is spreading.. .

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerdad View Post
    From teacup's reply, it seems that just about any US kid can join these European Cadet Circuit events. So no, it's not unfair if that's the case. All you need is money and time.

    It's interesting to see how many US kids will go next year, now that the word is spreading.. .
    Yes, and in my opinion it furthers the divide between those that have money/time and those that don't.

    The rules for MF/ME/MS are a little more restrictive than WS/WE/WF. Read the bottom of the request for entry form for complete details.
    http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/compon...leinfo/id,578/

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    I think what is upsetting is that I specifically asked the USFA if he could attend and was told categorically "No - He could not. " Now it is clear he could have.
    If your child was not in the top 24 of the cadet list, then he would be unable to enter from the US. If he was top 24 and born 1997, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to enter.

    The WE/WF eligibility criteria is much more open. As for signing up when you get there, it would be best to check, since the Europeans may be adding additional restrictions.

    Cadet Designated
    ME Top 24 C
    MF Top 24 C
    MS Top 24 C
    WE/WF ** **
    WS All Cadets on Points

    ** Open (any fencer meeting the age requirement may apply). Must have fenced in an NAC cadet or Y14 event in that weapon. If more than 12 fencers apply, those who are ranked 13 and lower must cover the expense of a referee, if one is required.

    By the way, I am just reading the rules. If there is some additional information somewhere else, please someone post it.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    I think what is upsetting is that I specifically asked the USFA if he could attend and was told categorically "No - He could not. " Now it is clear he could have.
    He could have. But even if he had won the tournament, my understanding is he probably wouldn't have had any USFA points awarded to him because of it. So if points are important to you, it's better to go to an SYC rather than a European Cadet Circuit event.
    Last edited by lurkerdad; 01-14-2009 at 07:24 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by disaster View Post
    Y14 WF results

    1. Jennifer Yamin New Jersey
    2. Julia Lee New Jersey
    3. Liana Yamin New Jersey
    3. Azaline Dunlop-Smith New England
    5. Hali Nelson New England
    6. Sophia Holmqvist New Jersey
    7. Samantha Lee Metro NYC
    8. Amanda Lalazarian Long Island
    I cannot believe that Azaline is Y14. And is she really registered as New England and not Northeast?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty Belgian View Post

    Sans this, I am with 10Gallon and Joralemon who pointed out that 2 fencers did unexpectedly dramatically well in Y12 (Tourette and Berg) and that there was a sizeable contingent from Denmark which actually placed 4 in the Top 12 and 6 in the Top 32.
    Tourette finished 2nd in the Y10 MF also...I was not at all surprised to see him do well in the Y12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty Belgian View Post
    Were there specific mistakes of which anyone who attended is aware that materially shaped the outcome of any of the UNH tournaments?
    I was only there for the early rounds, so I can't comment on later in the day. However, I did watch one fencer from Rochester get pretty royally screwed in his first DE. there were EASILY 6-8 calls reversed, all against him. he lost 15-13.

    That makes it a pretty bad experience.

    -m

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    epeemike- What do you mean 6-8 calls reversed?

    Quote Originally Posted by epeemike81 View Post
    I was only there for the early rounds, so I can't comment on later in the day. However, I did watch one fencer from Rochester get pretty royally screwed in his first DE. there were EASILY 6-8 calls reversed, all against him. he lost 15-13.

    That makes it a pretty bad experience.

    -m
    What do you mean 6-8 calls reversed?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    What do you mean 6-8 calls reversed?
    i think he means that 6 to 8 of the calls should have gone the other way (the wrong fencer got the pt).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nospam View Post
    What do you mean 6-8 calls reversed?
    I'm guessing he means between 6 and 8 calls were analyzed incorrectly by the referee. If a 15-13 bout, and 6 incorrect calls, it was definitely having a HUGE effect on the bout.

    Even if there were 8 blown, 4 each way, it still effects the fencers ALOT.
    "Sir, didn't I parry"
    "You didn't take advantage of his blade enough, so no."

    (I guess i should have romanced it a bit more..."

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