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Erika · 09-17-2002, 05:11 PM

Hi, I'm kind of new to all this fencing stuff, I just had my first lesson last Friday and we started with some basic footwork. I understand the advancing, like how to move my feet to go forward and everything (the instructor explained it to me and showed me exactly how I should do that). But my problem is with retreating. How do you move your feet? Like do you move your left foot first or you right (I should mention I'm right handed, since that might make a difference)? Is it just like the oppisit of going forward? Thanks so much for the help, I am trying to pratice often and no matter how much I try I can't seem to get how to retreat. Thanks again.

counter riposte · 09-17-2002, 05:45 PM

exactly the opposite of moving forward. Plenty of practice. Throw in a cross retreat once in a while.

KShan5[PrFC] · 09-17-2002, 05:48 PM

I am also new to fencing, so my advice may not be helpful, but I will try. As a right hander your back(left) leg should move first, then your front foot. When I first learned the footwork (and still am), while retreating, and trying to have some form of speed I would alwatys lean far forward, along with about every other kid in my club. I have been told that is a bog no-no, for te sole purpose that it is easier to get cracked across the mask. I will not divulge into this too much more because I don't wanna say something wrong...Anyone on the board wanna help me out if I am wrong?

veeco · 09-17-2002, 06:32 PM

Most important thing to watch for when you are beginning fencing and getting in the footwork is to keep your hips level with the floor at all times.

The most common mistake I see beginners do when doing footwork is that they kind of bounce up and down a lot while advancing and retreating. i.e. during an advance you would see the following which very wrong:

Front foot goes up (as well as the whole front side of the body).
Front foot goes forward (keeping the whole front side up).
Front foot lands (as well as the whole front side of the body).
Back foot goes up (as well as the whole back side of the body).
Back foot goes forwards (keeping the whole back side up).
Back foot lands (as well as the whole back side of the body).

Bringing your feet up too much can be the problem, as well as decomposing the movement too much.

What you can do to prevent this bad habit:

Try to get the feeling of "gliding" on the floor rather than "stepping up and down some imaginary stairwell".

It's easier to practice in front of a mirror where you can watch your posture.

Remember to lift your front foot in the following order: toes first, then heel "glides" then put toes back down.

When retreating, you need to glide the whole back foot back, lift your front toes, push on the front heel and let the body shift back smoothly, then pull the front leg back and put your heel down, then your toes.

All these need to be done with as little effort as possible because tense muscles tend to prevent rapid and short steps and encourage the taking of big long and slow steps which are inherently bad.

remise · 09-18-2002, 03:25 PM

My coach always has said that your feet are your primary weapon, and your blade your secondary weapon.

damianip · 09-18-2002, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by remise
My coach always has said that your feet are your primary weapon, and your blade your secondary weapon.

Funny, my coach said something similar to that last night. This, after he punished me for trying to make up distance with my shoulder instead of my feet.

Welcome, Bruce and congrats on your trip to the Vet WC.

Paolo

haggis · 09-18-2002, 04:39 PM

Veeco's absolutely right about keeping the hips level when stepping. I might disagree about lifting the toes of the front foot first when moving it but check with your coach on how he wants you to do it. Basically, reach back with back foot, then push back off front foot transferring balance to middle of new on guard position, front foot lands heel-toe. Make sure your legs are bent when your step back is completed, looking like your original on guard only 12-18 inches further back. There you are, nothing to it

Good luck and hope you enjoy it

Haggis

three_hundred_fifty_five · 09-18-2002, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erika
...But my problem is with retreating. ...

First, you get a pair of coconut halves.
Then, clap the coconut halves together to make them sound like horses hooves. Gallop away from your opponent while saying "Run away! run away!"

KShan5[PrFC] · 09-18-2002, 05:19 PM

ummmmmm........wow........

Erika · 09-18-2002, 05:30 PM

I'm going to have to work on that more when I get home tonight (I don't think I need the coconut halves for the horse sounds since I take horseback riding lessons). With the toes, I was told to lift my toes when I move. I think my first problem was I probably moved up and down and shuffled too much. When you glide your foot you pick it off the floor, right? I am asking many questions since I don't want to pratice the wrong way since then it would be harder to do it right, but I am praticing going on gaurd and moving forward, since I have that pretty much down. Oh, I just remembered my other question what is a cross retreat? Thanks for all the help, so far I really enjoy fencing.

haggis · 09-18-2002, 05:38 PM

Sorry, rereading my reply it's not very clear but yes, the feet lift off the ground, just off the ground. If, for example, you could get one of 355's coconut halves under one of your feet during a step in either direction then you're lifting them too much. To paraphrase Veeco, you're stepping forward or back not climbing the stairs.

Cheers

Haggis

veeco · 09-18-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erika
Oh, I just remembered my other question what is a cross retreat?

A cross retreat is something that you don't need to worry about for now, but the basis of it is the following:

bring back front foot, to the same level as your back foot, so after completing that move you would have your legs crossed sligthly with your front heel in the alignment of your back foot (the line formed by the toes of your back foot and your back heel).

Then you move your back foot as you would in a normal retreat.

It's supposed to be faster althougth I don't really understand the mechanics of what makes it faster.

damianip · 09-18-2002, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by haggis
Veeco's absolutely right about keeping the hips level when stepping. I might disagree about lifting the toes of the front foot first when moving it but check with your coach on how he wants you to do it. Basically, reach back with back foot, then push back off front foot transferring balance to middle of new on guard position, front foot lands heel-toe. Make sure your legs are bent when your step back is completed, looking like your original on guard only 12-18 inches further back. There you are, nothing to it

Good luck and hope you enjoy it

Haggis

My coach is absolutely adamant that we do NOT reach back with the rear foot but rather push off with the front when retreating.

His claim is that the reach is slower than the push and leaves you more vulnerable to attack during the action.

Paolo

haggis · 09-19-2002, 02:41 AM

damianip

Just to clarify: how does your coach recommend that the back foot gets back? Simply unloading the weight from the back foot and pushing off the front foot until the transfer of weight forces the back foot onto the floor?

Thanks

Haggis

damianip · 09-19-2002, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by haggis
damianip

Just to clarify: how does your coach recommend that the back foot gets back? Simply unloading the weight from the back foot and pushing off the front foot until the transfer of weight forces the back foot onto the floor?

Thanks

Haggis

Haggis,

That's pretty much it. He says that we should keep the vertical component to a minimum in our footwork. Gravity slows us down and tends to drag the upper body and, therefore, the point off target if we "fall" through our footwork.

Get the back foot unweighted and just enough off the ground to keep from tripping over it and push off the front foot (as close to simultaneously as possible).

He too also warns against allowing the pelvis to tip up during the retreat. It places the torso forward and out of balance.

Paolo

remise · 09-19-2002, 09:24 AM

A cross retreat was invented by the Knights Templar. You simply make the sign of the cross with your free hand, and pray that you back up sufficiently enough to avoid your opponents blade.

Inquartata · 09-19-2002, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by remise
A cross retreat was invented by the Knights Templar. You simply make the sign of the cross with your free hand, and pray that you back up sufficiently enough to avoid your opponents blade.

Faugh! The Templars never retreated!

Vive le Cresson!

Erika · 09-20-2002, 09:42 PM

Ok well today was my second fencing lesson, we learned the cross advance, cross retreat and lunge. We will be getting equiptment next week. It all seems to be moving so fast, but I guess that happens when it is only an 11 week course.

Anyway.

Thanks for all the help and advice, I really need as much help as I can get to just keep up.

nahouw · 09-20-2002, 11:58 PM

When talking tempo, a backward crossover is slower than a retreat. During the backwards crossover, you are taking alot of time to move the foot backwards, but yet the torso is not moving and hence, can get hit. If instead, through proper and good small footwork, you will move your feet and your torso backwards and avoid being hit.

Catlady · 09-21-2002, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by damianip
My coach is absolutely adamant that we do NOT reach back with the rear foot but rather push off with the front when retreating.

His claim is that the reach is slower than the push and leaves you more vulnerable to attack during the action.

Paolo

I've been taught the reaching theory too. Yes, the push off is the fastest and the fast part of your retreat, but first you reach your back leg behind you while keeping your weight on your front foot. As long as the weight is still on the front foot you can still change your mind and not retreat without being vulnerable. However, once you've made the decision to retreat and thus shift your weight, you'd better do it quickly;that's when you're vulnerable.