This is a new time for administrators and for parents with US fencing but I suspect it will be more of the same stuff with parents being told to shut up and pay bills and coaches getting more and more power with their "my way or the highway," "bring me another" attitude.
Parents!!! Stick to your guns, the coaches who will do what is right for your kid are few and far between. You are the only true advocate your kid has!! Be alert, cognizant, aware and know the rules!
We have learned this the hard way. Even after my daughter has been "removed" (kicked out) from her former club, and her former coach fired, the manager is still trying to make things difficult for her by contacting her college and appears to be fishing for transgressions that will make my kid ineligible for her wonderful college scholarship. Considering she has told me to my FACE about my daughter's alleged "ineligibility" and her information is just PLAIN WRONG, hasn't stopped her. Vindictiveness carries its own weight on one's soul.
When dealing with snakes wear solid rubber boots and carry a machete.
Happy Holidays,
The Momster
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
I think it is interesting that this comes up at the same time as the "How to Evaluate a Coach" thread. I would definitely emphasize for parents evaluating a coach for their children to pick someone you feel you can trust. I feel very fortunate that when we were first looking for a fencing coach we got the best, even though we had no idea how important he would become to us. My main criterion at the time was how close the club was. As my son got more involved in fencing, spending more and more time at the club, it was more and more important that we were comfortable there, and felt comfortable with our son being there. We do not always agree with what the coach wants, but we are able to disagree respectfully, on both sides, without any sense at all of wearing tall boots and carrying a machete.
Although my son is getting good fencing results, good life lessons are more important to us than good fencing results. We have a coach who supports us in both areas, and the more other parents I talk to about their coaches, the more I appreciate ours.
"...trying to make things difficult for her by contacting her college and appears to be fishing for transgressions that will make my kid ineligible for her wonderful college scholarship. Considering she has told me to my FACE about my daughter's ineligibility and her information is just PLAIN WRONG,..."
Perhaps a lawyer should a send a nice note on your behalf and get this issue on the record in case this tampering later escalates to slander.
__________________
"a braggart, a rogue, a villaine that fights by the book of arithmatick. Why the dev'l came you betweene us?.."
Last edited by the ancient one; 12-20-2008 at 12:31 PM..
I'm confused. Who was your daughter's coach if not Mr. Korfanty? This board would have heard if he were let go!
And why on earth would the club's manager (I think I know who she is.....) want to screw up Becca's eligibility? She has no dog in the NCAA race!! Weird stuff, there.
I'm confused. Who was your daughter's coach if not Mr. Korfanty? This board would have heard if he were let go!
And why on earth would the club's manager (I think I know who she is.....) want to screw up Becca's eligibility? She has no dog in the NCAA race!! Weird stuff, there.
Which Board? We informed Ed and OFA that Ed would not longer be acting as Becca's coach two months ago as in FIRED.
The club manager just likes to make trouble and has no dogs or future dogs in NCAA races any time soon.
We wondered why she was contacting the compliance officer at Duke too but not too hard since we knew it was most likely coming.
Her new wonderful coach is Alex Beguinet at Duke. She is so very very happy there and having a great time at college. It is a good fit for her, it is where she needs to be.
The Momster
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
Alex is a great guy, and funny. And you know I have to be telling the truth, cause I was born and raised in Chapel Hill, and we hate Dookies! (But he's still a cool guy lol)
This is a new time for administrators and for parents with US fencing but I suspect it will be more of the same stuff with parents being told to shut up and pay bills and coaches getting more and more power with their "my way or the highway," "bring me another" attitude.
The Momster
Are you implying that the new administration is going to act and do as the former administration had? Is it your opinion we do not care for the issue and will not hear it? The new officers are committed to enact change for the betterment of the sport and it's members. I am sorry the last administration was terrible but now you are going to make blind judgments about the new administration based on the old? That sounds a bit biased. Your issue was introduced to us last month and you expect it to be over a done with in this short time frame? It will need time for your 40 plus pages of information, evidence and accusations to be sorted through. I feel it was highly unfair for you to make your generalize statement about us and compare us to the last group.
MArk Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association
Dear Mark,
Quite frankly I would be tickled to the bone if something actually did happen but we have heard nothing as of yet.
What you don't know is that I get a lot of private messages from other parents who are being treated similarly to how we were treated.They feel taken advantage of by coaches, they don't get information like they feel they need and are feeling the bite of the present economy.
The adding of the $100 fee to FIE meets has a lot of families concerned.
If things are going to change, it would be nice to let people know that this will happen.
We just sit and hear nothing.
Communication is good. Communication is vital!!!!
If you are going to do something about the lack of communication and unequal distribution of power between fencers and coaches and especially national coaches, this is the season to start talking about it.
The Senior events start in a little over a month.
I did get an email about Monica being the head of the parents commitee. From what I have seen, it completely misses the point.
Parents don't need to know how to deal with their kids at meets, they need to know how to deal with the coaches, referees and administration.
I think Parents need to unionize....
We would totally appreciate some information on what is happening with our particular case too. If you had time to write this post, feel free to shoot me an email at Comacrone@aol.com.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdstasinos
"It will need time for your 40 plus pages of information, evidence and accusations" to be sorted through. I feel it was highly unfair for you to make your generalize statement about us and compare us to the last group.
MArk Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association
"Accusations", wow that really makes me think you have an open mind...
Thanks Mark,
The Momster
__________________ A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...: )
Dear Mark,
Quite frankly I would be tickled to the bone if something actually did happen but we have heard nothing as of yet.
What you don't know is that I get a lot of private messages from other parents who are being treated similarly to how we were treated.They feel taken advantage of by coaches, they don't get information like they feel they need and are feeling the bite of the present economy.
The adding of the $100 fee to FIE meets has a lot of families concerned.
If things are going to change, it would be nice to let people know that this will happen.
We just sit and hear nothing.
Communication is good. Communication is vital!!!!
If you are going to do something about the lack of communication and unequal distribution of power between fencers and coaches and especially national coaches, this is the season to start talking about it.
The Senior events start in a little over a month.
I did get an email about Monica being the head of the parents commitee. From what I have seen, it completely misses the point.
Parents don't need to know how to deal with their kids at meets, they need to know how to deal with the coaches, referees and administration.
I think Parents need to unionize....
We would totally appreciate some information on what is happening with our particular case too. If you had time to write this post, feel free to shoot me an email at Comacrone@aol.com.
"Accusations", wow that really makes me think you have an open mind...
Thanks Mark,
The Momster
First, "accusations" refers to the acknowledgment of an accusation of complaint of something not normal or acceptable. I do have an open mind and try not to be judgmental.
Second, yes, we have to develop better communication and that is being worked on. I as well have received many complaints from parents and fencers as well and I weigh them carefully. The new parent committee has just been organized and needs time to be developed and refined in working with our fencers and the association. Suggestions, comments and thoughts are always going to be welcomed.
MArk Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association
“Suggestions, comments and thoughts are always going to be welcomed.”
Mark:
As a parent of two fencers, who has been involved with fencing for more than ten years I think it is time for all to step back and act responsibly. The issue of National Coaches should not deteriorate into a settling of old scores. The executive committee should be given some leeway and some time.
Our experience has included local, national, international, NCAA collegiate local and national events. We know two of the current National Coaches very well as well as two of the former National Coaches. Not every one has had the same negative experience as the Wards.
My concern is that their (the Wards) unfortunate experience will over shadow the truly positive experiences that many fencers have had with Simon Gershon, Yury Gelman, Buckie Leach, and Kornel Udvarhelyl.
If it comes to a vote of the membership, I would most emphatically suggest that both Simon and Yury remain as National Coaches.
Are you implying that the new administration is going to act and do as the former administration had? Is it your opinion we do not care for the issue and will not hear it? The new officers are committed to enact change for the betterment of the sport and it's members.
Mark:
First: deep, cleansing breaths for everyone. If you'll read carefully, the majority of Mo's post seemed directed at the the National Coach(ing) "administration", more than the incoming Administration. There's a difference. That being said; in my experience, most organizations and institutions tend to take care of their own turf first, and tend not to respond well to things that may reflect unfavorably on the institution. We have seen many instances of that over multiple USFA administrations, so accept my apology if you feel you are being overly tarred with a "sins of the past" brush.
However; you do have some history and perceptions to overcome. Before submitting our Board of Inquiry request, we vetted the material among many individuals both inside and outside of fencing. Almost to a person, everyone agreed something needed to be done, yet, almost unanimously, no one believed the USFA would actually do anything to address the issues. I choose to believe they are wrong.
It may be that this new batch of USFA movers and shakers will forge a new paradigm of openness, transparency and accountability. But, you've got to actually do it, not merely promise it. I truly hope it is a bold new day in the USFA, with new demands for accountability and professionalism from its coaches and administrators. Heck, even Ohio State eventually booted Woody Hayes, so anything is possible...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdstasinos
Your issue was introduced to us last month and you expect it to be over a done with in this short time frame? It will need time for your 40 plus pages of information, evidence and accusations to be sorted through.
Once again, I apologize for the length of the document, but to me, in cases of this seriousness, thoroughness counts. If it's any consolation, my original journal account of the last couple of years in WS competition ran over 90 pages, before the USFA sent me 40+ more pages of documentation of behind-the-scenes activities. I understand the need for careful consideration. Still, some observations:
1. The USFA and the USOC were sent an admittedly incendiary set of documents on 11/13. That's over six weeks ago. A senior official from the USOC read the complaint through (twice, they said) and six days later, agreed that an internal review was indeed warranted and contacted President Weeks to discuss the matter.
2. On 11/24, the USFA legal counsel told me the Executive Committee would be meeting in a couple of weeks time and would be presented with my request for action.
3. I understand the EC met before or concurrently with the NAC in Colorado Springs, yet we have received no word other than a nice note from President Weeks on 12/17 (in response to a second e-mail from me with additional documentation) saying the matter was still under careful review, but with no mention of whether it had actually been brought before the EC. So, I hope you will excuse my mild confusion on where things stand at the moment.
4. FWIW, I also found your "accusations" line to be more reminiscent of the attitude of the Old Guard than the New Turks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdstasinos
The new parent committee has just been organized and needs time to be developed and refined in working with our fencers and the association. Suggestions, comments and thoughts are always going to be welcomed.
OK, here's a suggestion: the Parent Committee needs to serve as more than a glorified distributer of FAQ information about buses in Budapest to other parents. Several of us...ahhh....activist parents were a little disconcerted when the new Chair of the committee wrote: "I would like to see this committee stick with advising, communicating with,
and in general, helping other parents. As many of you have written, this sport can be complicated and intimidating to new parents - whether they are new to a club and the sport or new to international competitions. I really don't think we should get involved with USFA policy or decisions." (emphasis added)
Instead, I urge you and others in the administration to encourage the committee to solicit policy ideas from the pool of parents who have their kids involved in fencing.
__________________
"Fraud is the creation of trust. And then: its betrayal."
William Black, Ph.D.
Last edited by Capt. Slo-mo; 12-27-2008 at 11:11 PM..
The issue of National Coaches should not deteriorate into a settling of old scores. The executive committee should be given some leeway and some time.
I totally agree...and they are taking a deliberate length of time. In matters of such substance; perfectly appropriate. However; (and there's always a however!) two further thoughts:
A. National Coaches, or for that matter, senior administration officials cannot be exempt from following reasonable standards of professionalism and ethics. Suggesting that they do so does not automatically constitute "settling old scores."
B. I do believe Mark and others in the new administration truly intend to to make the USFA a more responsible, transparent organization. Yet, they still have some room for improvement, as many have demonstrated in other threads on this board. This issue is a good example: Mark avows that he and his cohorts are instituting a more open organization, yet look at my situation...it would be easy to have given a very clear update on where things stand without divulging many specifics--has the EC indeed met? Was there some decision? If it hasn't met, when will it? I still don't know the answers to any of those questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TensingNorgay
Our experience has included local, national, international, NCAA collegiate local and national events. We know two of the current National Coaches very well as well as two of the former National Coaches. Not every one has had the same negative experience as the Wards.
And others have had even worse experiences than ours. What's your point? Sure, we know some great coaches who we would trust to take our fencers to Timbuktu without a second thought. We know some other coaches who should probably never be allowed to come in contact with young kids again. Coaches exhibiting exemplary behavior should be congratulated. Coaches exhibiting less than professional behavior need to be held accountable.
And let's be clear: winning isn't the sole measure of a coach. Ask Bobby Knight. Or Indiana University...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TensingNorgay
My concern is that their (the Wards) unfortunate experience will over shadow the truly positive experiences that many fencers have had with Simon Gershon, Yury Gelman, Buckie Leach, and Kornel Udvarhelyl.
So your answer is that any member of the Mainstream Coaching Fraternity (MCF) should be given a free pass, no matter what they do or how they behave, because demanding accountability for one would somehow denigrate all? Interesting concept.
I have to tell you that, over the past couple of years, it's been highly disturbing to hear MCF members promoting the theory that we shouldn't be criticizing Ed at all (no matter what) because of his results, and that, instead, we should be thanking him (no matter what). This, from folks who have little or no direct knowledge of our situation, other than it involves a coach with some enviable finishes. It's not a theory we subscribe to: for us, the journey should be just as important (if not more important) as the destination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TensingNorgay
If it comes to a vote of the membership, I would most emphatically suggest that both Simon and Yury remain as National Coaches.
Hey, did the USFA just become a democracy? Cool! The Obama Effect is far-reaching!
In all seriousness, this is one way the Weeks Quad could definately demonstrate a difference from previous administrations. How much input has the rank and file (or even the ranks of the national/international fencers) ever had in the selection/retention of National Coaches?
__________________
"Fraud is the creation of trust. And then: its betrayal."
William Black, Ph.D.
Last edited by Capt. Slo-mo; 12-27-2008 at 11:57 PM..
has the EC indeed met? Was there some decision? If it hasn't met, when will it? I still don't know the answers to any of those questions.
The EC has a regularly-scheduled bi-weekly conference call. At every NAC most of us are present and meet minimally informally. We exchange numerous emails and phone calls between those meetings. We have disucssed the issues that you've raised and will continue to work on them.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
) two further thoughts:
The Obama Effect is far-reaching! 
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