How to Evaluate a Coach

[dknj]

How to Evaluate a Coach
http://www.sofaemployed.com/?p=1073

[prototoast]

How to Evaluate a Coach
http://www.sofaemployed.com/?p=1073

Honestly, for someone in your position, I find your answers to be severely lacking in substance.

[dknj]

Honestly, for someone in your position, I find your answers to be severely lacking in substance.

What is that supposed to mean? Evaluating a coach is something you have to do for yourself. I can't do it for you. These are guidelines and questions I would use myself.

[fdad]

What is that supposed to mean? Evaluating a coach is something you have to do for yourself. I can't do it for you. These are guidelines and questions I would use myself.

I think he is looking for something more specific, like choose Simon ;-)

[dknj]

I think he is looking for something more specific, like choose Simon ;-)

You're probably right, but that's not my decision... And the question was how to evaluate a coach, not which one should I pick.

[nahouw]

Honestly, for someone in your position, I find your answers to be severely lacking in substance.

I thought it was a great answer. When choosing a coach, you have to make sure your temperment and learning style is compatible to the coach. There is anoher thread talking about NCAA fencing and that if you don't fit in with the coach and team temperment and style, you won't wind up doing as well fencing at that school no matter how successful that school's program is, and would be better off at another college. That is why it is important to have a conversation with a coach to explore and answer all the questions that Dan offered.

[prototoast]

That is why it is important to have a conversation with a coach to explore and answer all the questions that Dan offered.

I agree, having a conversation with a coach is a great step towards evaluating a coach--too bad there's nothing about that in his response.

The questions might be a decent starting point, but to be a good response would at least include some details on how to answer them.

Suppose I was a fencer who was considering switching coaches, and I go through these questions(these are hypothetical answers, not my own):

1. What are your goals for your fencing career?
To make a national team.

2. Is your current coach helping you achieve those goals?
Yes.

1. Has your coach produced fencers that have equaled or exceeded your goals?
No.

2. Does your fencing resemble successful fencing?
Yes.

3. Is your coach consistent in their teaching?
Yes (joe morgan).

4. Can your coach effectively communicate their concepts and techniques?
Yes.

Okay, now what?

[Mr.MightyMouse]

I thought it was a great answer. When choosing a coach, you have to make sure your temperment and learning style is compatible to the coach. There is anoher thread talking about NCAA fencing and that if you don't fit in with the coach and team temperment and style, you won't wind up doing as well fencing at that school no matter how successful that school's program is, and would be better off at another college. That is why it is important to have a conversation with a coach to explore and answer all the questions that Dan offered.

Agreed, when I am asked about a coach, and for some reason I get asked a lot, my first question back is : "Can you afford him?", since no assumption of discounts, freebies, etc. should be made,
and second :"How far can he take you?", if the answer to both questions is satisfactory - I'd usually advise to forgo personalities, quirks, etc., and get to work.

[prototoast]

Agreed

You didn't just agree with him.

[fdad]

The questions might be a decent starting point, but to be a good response would at least include some details on how to answer them.

Let me help, here are the correct answers:
What are your goals for your fencing career?
Olympic Gold Individual and Team medals, every four years for next 16 years.

Is your current coach helping you achieve those goals?
No, obviously not - I'm reading this thread instead of training.

Has your coach produced fencers that have equaled or exceeded your goals?
No, and Valentina Vezzali's coach won't take my calls.

Does your fencing resemble successful fencing?
Compared to my goals, no.

Is your coach consistent in their teaching?
Yes, and I am consistently falling short of my goals.

Can your coach effectively communicate their concepts and techniques?
I am not sure whether I can't understand the winning concepts and techniques or whether I understand losing concepts and techniques.

[dknj]

I agree, having a conversation with a coach is a great step towards evaluating a coach--too bad there's nothing about that in his response.

The questions might be a decent starting point, but to be a good response would at least include some details on how to answer them.

Suppose I was a fencer who was considering switching coaches, and I go through these questions(these are hypothetical answers, not my own):

1. What are your goals for your fencing career?
To make a national team.

2. Is your current coach helping you achieve those goals?
Yes.

1. Has your coach produced fencers that have equaled or exceeded your goals?
No.

2. Does your fencing resemble successful fencing?
Yes.

3. Is your coach consistent in their teaching?
Yes (joe morgan).

4. Can your coach effectively communicate their concepts and techniques?
Yes.

Okay, now what?

First of all, if you're getting what you want, then you don't need to switch coaches. The original question was posed by someone who is considering leaving his coach.

It seems from the hypotheticals that the fencer is getting what they want. Number 2 is kinda big, but coaches start from the beginning and (hopefully) improve as they continue to coach. However, if the hypothetical fencer finds that their improvement has hit an extended plateau and haven't made a national team, but still want to, then they should probably switch coaches.

It all really depends on your situation and applying critical thinking.

[prototoast]

First of all, if you're getting what you want, then you don't need to switch coaches. The original question was posed by someone who is considering leaving his coach.

It seems from the hypotheticals that the fencer is getting what they want. Number 2 is kinda big, but coaches start from the beginning and (hopefully) improve as they continue to coach. However, if the hypothetical fencer finds that their improvement has hit an extended plateau and haven't made a national team, but still want to, then they should probably switch coaches.

It all really depends on your situation and applying critical thinking.

See, this is exactly the kind of additional analysis that I feel was missing from your original response.

[foibles]

Were I dropping serious coin on coaching, these are questions I would ask:

1. Does the coach seem to care more about my personal success as a fencer, his/ her personal success as a paid coach?
2. During a lesson, does it seem like the coach is customizing his coaching style/ content to address my specific strengths/ weaknesses, or does it seem like the coach uses a one-size-fits-all approach?
3. Do I respect the coach as a decent honorable person? One with which I feel comfortable continuing to be associated and do business with?
4. Is the coach providing comprehensive training- touching on multiple aspects of the sport including: technique, strategy, speed agility and endurance training, the mental/ emotional game, goal setting and measuring etc. ?
5. Have I really outgrown this coach, or is there still more I can learn?
6. Is the coach providing a good value?
7. Is the coach reliable?

I would apply these questions to expensive, professional coaches.

Those "cottage industry", part-time coaches that do their best, for not much (or any) money, that coach as much out of an enthusiasm and love for the sport as anything else... To those I am far more forgiving.

[dknj]

See, this is exactly the kind of additional analysis that I feel was missing from your original response.

I appreciate your complement... but I didn't have have those hypotheticals in the original question. That's why I said it was personal and you had to apply to your situation. The questions do work though...

[prototoast]

I appreciate your complement... but I didn't have have those hypotheticals in the original question. That's why I said it was personal and you had to apply to your situation. The questions do work though...

I agree they're good questions, but you don't tell us what to do with the answers. When I provided you with some hypothetical answers, you were able to give much more insight on the process of evaluating one's coach. I don't see why you couldn't come up with a few hypothetical responses yourself to allow you to go into much more detail in your original response. I don't expect you to run through every possible scenario, but as you have illustrated in this thread, even going through one possible scenario provides some very good additional information.

[MdA]

These are some good questions. I would like to point out that the first three pertain to results. The second three are related more to the coach's education, training, and experience.

The fencer must answer these questions honestly and to the best of her/his ability...and as Dan says...apply critical thinking...and maybe some advice from other experienced fencers. As fdad points out...everyone can't be going to the Olympics....and those coaches are in short supply.

There are many good coaches out there who can produce section champions or state high school champions....or college conference champions. This might be a good place to start...provided as Dan says "it resembles successful fencing"

[gladius]

...

Has your coach produced fencers that have equaled or exceeded your goals?
No, and Valentina Vezzali's coach won't take my calls.

I can assure you that Maestro Giulio Tomassini, Vezzali's coach, would take your call and would work with you if you are interested. You should relocate to Terni, Italy, and concentrate on fencing ... like she does.

The results will amaze you...

[Rock]

Oh, Mo.
Where are you when we need you on this thread?

[TBean]

I would also add that even if the answers to the questions indicate that you should remain with that coach, they still might not be the right person to coach you. Foibles added some really important questions - they address some points that speak to what the quality of the relationship between the fencer and the coach could/should be. Sure I can learn from almost anyone that can teach, but if I am enjoying that experience - rather than just getting though it - it will have more value.

[catwood1]

I would clarify / second the idea that talking to the coach you're considering leaving is VERY important. Especially for beginners, they may not realize exactly what is essentially needed to be successful. If you want to be a national team fencer, taking 1 group class a week isn't going to help you, regardless of the coach.

Talk to your coach!!