Hitmate Wireless System

[geofmclean]

I'm sold. I'll have the club buy one when we start back in January.

Ditto ejemyr: Any forecast on the foil version?

[oiuyt]

This one DOES detect when there's a hit to the bell-guard or grounded piste and doesn't score a touch for that. It's truly wireless, and it uses capacitance to determine whether the hit is to the (insulated) target or the (grounded) bell guard.

<SNIP>

A wooden floor works fine.

How does it use capacitance to sort out the difference between "(insulated) target" and "wooden floor"?

-B

[Hitman_2211]

I've used the earlier version - which was fine for having a knock about in the club. I am very curious about how well it performs for detecting guard hits.

Gav -It took some time to get it right, and by stages we got it well nigh perfect. Finally, we hooked up a pair of fencers through an adaptor gadget, to Hitmate AND a Favero score box with reels. Both systems gave identical scores, Reds, Greens and double hits were all recorded. I hope you get the chance to try out the new Epee Hitmate.

How does it use capacitance to sort out the difference between "(insulated) target" and "wooden floor"?

Oiuyt - You <SNIPPED> out my comment that it's not essential to fence on a metal piste.
If you want Hitmate to ignore hits to the piste, it needs to be a metal piste. Doesn't need earth wires, the metal mass is enough.
For training and practice, you can fence on a wooden floor but you will have to ignore any hits to the floor.

Any forecast on when you might have a foil system out?

Ejemyr -We know that Foil Hitmate is coming, but all I can say right now is that it will not be soon. When we do have some news, we will circulate it on our emailing list.

Thanks to all for your interest and enthusiasm. The year 2009 should see Epee Hitmate establish itself as the affordable way into wireless fencing, and maybe 2010 will see Foil Hitmate in action.

[oiuyt]

Oiuyt - You <SNIPPED> out my comment that it's not essential to fence on a metal piste.
If you want Hitmate to ignore hits to the piste, it needs to be a metal piste. Doesn't need earth wires, the metal mass is enough.
For training and practice, you can fence on a wooden floor but you will have to ignore any hits to the floor.

I had not been intending to take it out of context. Given that it's NEVER essential to fence on a metal piste unless one wants the benefits of the grounded strip I didn't catch that by "a wooden floor works fine" what you meant was.... I'm still not sure what you meant by that, actually.

I can believe that it can detect a large metal object (such as a piste) regardless of what the piste is connected to (or not), such as an earth ground. I just didn't get how it could do that with an insulated substance, which appeared to be your claim. Now I understand that not to be what you were saying. Apologies for any confusion my confusion may have caused.

How well does the system work when multiple systems are in use in close proximity simultaneously (as in a club or tournament setting)?

Any plans to market in the US?

-B

[Hitman_2211]

Oiuyt -That's cleared up the wooden piste. I think you have the same effect if you fence with wires and spools on a wooden floor -you have to ignore the hits to the floor.

A set (Red & Green transmitters, Console receiver) has an identifying number, used in the radio protocol. A receiver knows its number and ignores transmissions from any sets using a different number. Radio transmissions are short and generally don't collide. There's a collision avoidance process in the radio protocol to take care of exceptions.

So yes, you can use a number of sets in a Salle. They all work independently.

We are currently talking to vendors about representation in the U.S., and selling into the USA from the web site, where you can pay in US$ and receive the goods within about 4 days. Return the goods within 4 weeks for a full refund if in your opinion Epee Hitmate doesn't work as described.

[oiuyt]

A set (Red & Green transmitters, Console receiver) has an identifying number, used in the radio protocol. A receiver knows its number and ignores transmissions from any sets using a different number.

Is there a method to resync? I.e. if I lose/break my red transmitter, is it possible to purchase a new red transmitter and have it become part of an existing set? Is it possible to do the same with return to the factory if not in the field?

-B

[Hitman_2211]

Yes, the number is inserted electronically at the factory, and each unit has the number shown on the outside. Part of the process of doing a repair or replacement is to assign the correct number.

If you buy direct from Hitmate, we keep track of what set numbers you've got. If you buy additional sets from a retail outlet, just tell them what numbers you already have so they can avoid duplicating any. Numbers run up to 60 so there are plenty of variants.

[oiuyt]

So in theory if I lose the red transmitter from my #15 set I could talk to the factory and get a replacement #15 red transmitter sent back out?

That works.

Although it does raise the issue that when purchasing additional sets one ought to tell the vendor/factory all numbers currently owed to avoid conflict.

How many clubs (or other locations) are currently using these? Any testimonials yet? They seem like a good enough solution at a good enough pricepoint that there should be significant interest, although the single-weapon nature of them will temper that somewhat.

-B

[Hitman_2211]

Yes, you can get a numbered replacement, and yes if buying from a retail outlet you will need to avoid duplicating numbers. As I said, there are plenty of variants.

I agree with your comment that the price is good. We hope that some individuals will choose Hitmate to create a piste in their own home at an affordable cost. Epee Hitmate will certainly appeal to many clubs. Even though it's not multi-weapon, the use of any Epee Hitmate leaves a wired piste free for Foil or Sabre use.

The product was fully launched only in August 2008, so it's too early to give any statistics on distribution.

Thanks for your interest in this exciting new product, and I hope it's not long before you are using it yourself.

[Nolano]

Hmm. I was thinking about setting up a strip. If I do, I'll probably use this. It's cheaper than even one reel, and I really rarely fence anything other than epee, anyways.

[EldRick]

I received an Epee Hitmate from fencing.net yesterday and took it to Salle Trois Armes to try it out. http://www.hitmate.co.uk/index.htm

The first thing that came up was getting a couple of the guys to try it out: a pair of our epee guys weren't interested, stating that they found that the tug of the wire gave them a sense of orientation, and they weren't big on the idea of RF as a result. This was a surprise to me - I hadn't considered the loss of haptic feedback as an issue.

Anyway, after finding a couple of more open minded fencers, we spent a couple of minutes hooking it up as recommended, with the body wires under their shoulder/arm protectors.

We had immediate problems with one transmitter not detecting guard hits reliably, although it did ignore a touch to the cold-water pipe as recommended in the troubleshooting procedure.

This proved to be an intermittent issue with a single weapon, although the sword did work correctly with the wired scoring system. I didn't have a chance to take the weapon apart or a meter to measure resistance, but it could have been related to the guard, which had a random anodized pattern on the surface (sort of a whitish marbled finish), or it could have been a poor ground connection at the bell. Perhaps the transmitters could be a little more sensitive to ground quality than other scoring apparatus.

After getting that out of the way with known-good epees, several bouts were contested with the Hitmate, and it appeared to work reliably, to the satisfaction of all. One of our better fencers absolutely loved it.

The only other minor issue that appeared is that the receiver/beeper unit has a two-second lockout after a touch, and this initially made us believe that it was intermittent, when a fencer would touch the floor to test it, get a beep, and then try to do it again without waiting for the reset interval. This lockout interval also seems to occur when first plugging in the body wire, when the receiver gives a long beep to indicate the connection.

The solution for this is simple enough - let it reset, but if you aren't expecting it, it could mislead you into thinking that there is an intermittent problem.

My only other very minor gripe with it is that it is not apparent how to get at the battery compartment in the receiver - you have to remove a protective rubbery sheath that protects it, and it is not obvious how to do so. If I were designing the product, I'd be inclined to cover the transmitter units with the same rubber cover used on the receiver, just for a bit more protection if they were to get whacked with an epee or someone was to fall on one. Time will tell how durable the transmitter units are.

I would also give some visible indication on the transmitter units on how to turn the units on, and off (to save battery life, press the tip switch for > 5 seconds to turn the transmitter off), and I'd add an On LED indicator. You shouldn't have to make everyone read the manual to find these things out, or rely on word-of-mouth to extend the battery life.

Anyway, so far so good. The Epee Hit-Mate does exactly what the manufacturer says it does, and will be particularly useful for traveling venues, like fencing demonstrations and classes at local high-schools and colleges, as well as a backup for the scoring units when training at the salle. It is well thought-out, with features like a protective carrying case that has compartments to store spare batteries.

We intend to give it a good workout in coming days, and will report if any problems turn up.

[Picaroon]

Before purchasing I am wondering what sort of warranty is offered, manufacturer or otherwise. I want to make sure I can count on it working for at least a year..

[EldRick]

A very good question - the only thing stated in any of the manufacturers material is:

"If your Hitmate develops a fault, please return all three units as a
set to the retailer who supplied them, or send an email to
hmservice@hitmate.co.uk describing the problem, and we will do
our best to provide a speedy and satisfactory solution."

I've sent them an email inquiring.

[Picaroon]

Hi OldRick,

Are you having a problem with your Hitman already? In your previous post you mentioned you just got it a few days ago.. Or are you wondering about the warranty for future reference?

[EldRick]

Nope - no problems - just wondering, after you brought it up.

[Craig]

Before purchasing I am wondering what sort of warranty is offered, manufacturer or otherwise. I want to make sure I can count on it working for at least a year..

Fencing.Net will warranty them for a year providing for normal use. (This means that if you drop if from the top of a building, etc. then it's not covered.)

Craig

[EldRick]

That's particularly nice, given that most electronic equipment these days come with a 90-day warranty at best.

Thanks, Craig.

[TodG]

This sound like a nice training aid for a club like ours that uses a local school gym. We can save the reels for matches. Looking forward to the foil version.

[crquack]

I got mine this week. My wife and I tried it today.

The equipment functioned flawlessly out of the box. The boxes are just the right size and weight not to be noticed during fighting and not to fall out of the pocket. The buzzer is loud and long enough to register even in a moderately noisy environment. No bell hits registered.

I do not want to be too effusive after only one session but I find the whole concept wonderful. It performs as well if not better than the two electric systems I had used previously in the local clubs. The package is ridiculously small and easy to transport unlike the full electric kits.

At a cost of less than half of the cheapest full electric system surely this is the way to go for small clubs just starting out? One can run two pistes for the price of one old system!

The only downside was remarked upon by my wife: Previously we used the Favero mini-boxes which told us reliably when a touch was scored but not necessarily if it was one light or two (believe me, with the acoustics of a racquetball court this gets even more difficult). Today she found out that most of the "doubles" were in fact my touches

[Hercules]

Our club received ours last night! It is awesome! It took 2 seconds to get it working. We had a small problem with one of the weapons going off on the bell, but switched out that weapon and it started working flawlessly. The range of the transmitters is way more than enough, I went out in the hallway a good distance for the salle and could still hear it going off.

Well made device! My coach was even talking about doing demonstrations with it around town to advertise our club!