So How Is Everybody Doing?

**cornflower** · 12-05-2008 09:37 PM

I'm feeling particularly friendly (I think it's the half-bottle of Sauvignon Blanc and some weird sparkling rosé that I've had in the past hour), and I want to know what's up with you all! It's been a while since I've really been active on this board, and I want to know how everybody's doing, and if anything important happened forum-wise in the past year.

Love you all!

**lefty_monster** · 12-05-2008 10:30 PM

I'm dying to know and none of my friends can tell me: What is the ASL sign for fencing?

The monster has been lurking instead of posting lately. I seem to have gotten a life... or something resembling a life...

**Cry_Me_A_River** · 12-06-2008 03:51 AM

How I'm feeling depends on what your wearing.

So...

**mrbiggs** · 12-06-2008 04:06 AM

I'm doing OK.

How are you?

**PeterGustafsson** · 12-06-2008 01:37 PM

Hi Cornflower!

Nice to hear(see) from you! I have recently gooten a bad case of electionnewsjunkieitis, an coupled with 2.5 hours of commuting to my new job I have posted less here than previously.

Could you do some Youtube snips of fencing terminolgy in ASL, and any other SL you know? (Come to think of it: what is the level of SL bilinguality among those who speak at least one SL?)

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

**cornflower** · 12-07-2008 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi Cornflower!

Nice to hear(see) from you! I have recently gooten a bad case of electionnewsjunkieitis, an coupled with 2.5 hours of commuting to my new job I have posted less here than previously.

Could you do some Youtube snips of fencing terminolgy in ASL, and any other SL you know? (Come to think of it: what is the level of SL bilinguality among those who speak at least one SL?)

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

What do you do for work? I hope the commute is worth it, for a job that you hopefully enjoy!

Maybe I will do that Youtube thing! But there aren't many signs for fencing terms that I know of. The sign for "fencing" is made when you form your hand into the ASL hand-shape for the letter "A" (as if you were holding a french grip), hold it out, and then wiggle it a bit.

Re: sign languages, that is a very good question. I don't know the answer, but I can tell you that in the Eastern French-speaking parts of Canada, there are many signing Quebecers who are fluent in both ASL and LSQ (Langue des signes québécoise). And I am friends with a Deaf man (one of my childhood role models) who is fluent in ASL, BSL (British Sign Language) and Japanese Sign Language. There are increasing amounts of Deaf people doing studies in Deaf studies, ASL, sign languages, visual communication, and visual languages. I have attended many seminars, presentations and forums on a variety of topics related to this at Gallaudet University.

A BRIEF HISTORY LESSON!:
LSQ is far more similar to ASL than it is to LSF (Langue des signes francaise). The basis of modern ASL was formed from LSF. LSF was developed in France, and used at Institution Nationale des sourds-muets de Paris. When an American gentleman (Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet) came to Europe to investigate methods of instructing the Deaf, he happened upon the Institution. He met Laurent Clerc--a graduate of the Institution and a teacher there--and asked him to come to America with him (but not without some encouragement from the headmaster, because Clerc was suspicious of Gallaudet's Protestant, non-Catholic background!). Clerc brought his French sign language to America, and ASL was then developed from an amalgamation of LSF and the sign language used in America at the time (MVSL--Martha's Vineyard Sign Language). Together, Clerc and Gallaudet founded the very first Deaf institution in America in 1817: the Hartford School for the Deaf, now known as the American School for the Deaf.

Gallaudet did stop by England, but the Deaf institution there was operated by the Braidwoods, and run as a family business. They were unwilling to share their "secret" methods (of an oralist kind, I believe, very unwise in my opinion), and pretty much told Gallaudet to bugger off unless there was some sort of royalty involved in regards to instructing deaf children with their methods. Gallaudet was strapped for time and money, so he declined to become involved with the Braidwoods, and moved on to the Institution in Paris (where they used the manual method as opposed to the oral). It is important to know that because of Braidwood's reluctance to accommodate Gallaudet, British Sign Language is very different from ASL, and they have different histories in regards to development. I don't know much BSL, only how to spell out the manual alphabet, and if needed, "You're crap at football!" hehehe!

But while we're on the topic of bilingualism... more schools/programs for the Deaf in North America are adopting a "bilingual/bi-cultural" philosophy. This means treating the Deaf language/culture and the Hearing language/culture as separate entities. This philosophy holds the view that (especially in the very beginning) Deaf children are by default, inherently and naturally visual; and that ASL must first be taught, and then English in the manner of a second language. The philosophy holds that clear and efficient communication right from the beginning, is more important than anything else.

This is demonstrated by many children who are put into oral education programs; but if by the time they are 7 or so, they haven't become "oral successes" and judged "oral failures," they are put into sign language programs. Thus Deaf people are often left with the job of cleaning up the failure to turn a Deaf child into someone who could pass for a hearing person. Mind, there are children who do become "oral successes," and go on to lead happy, "normal" lives; but what of the "oral failures?"

The weakness of oral education programs early in the day was that they placed too much emphasis on audio-verbal skills, rather than actual literacy education. For example, two 4-year old Deaf children: one oral and another ASL. The oral child might only know 50 words, but the ASL one might know about 500. The acquisition of oral skills for a Deaf child moves at a much slower pace than the acquisition of literacy skills. This can be summed up with: "What is the point of learning to speak, if you have nothing to say?"

The Bi-Bi method is supported by research that observes that Deaf children with Deaf parents who use ASL have much better English literacy. I have seen evidence of this first-hand. It is mind boggling! One of my closest school friends is a Deaf child of Deaf parents. She has a Deaf sibling and several other Deaf relatives. So needless to say, her upbringing was rich in communication, and definitely lacking in the communication barriers that many Deaf children of non-signing (hearing) parents experience. My friend's mum has hearing parents, and her literacy skills are not good at all; but my friend, on the other hand, her literacy skills are a hell of a lot better than her mother's. The same thing goes for the Deaf children of Deaf parents that I have met at school (Did you know, 90 percent of Deaf children are born to hearing parents? Only 10 percent are born to Deaf parents).

But anyways I've blabbered on long enough... I don't know if it is anything related to your question, Peter, but I hope you learned something! Here are a few interesting web-pages on the history of Deaf people/culture/education in America. I'm fascinated with Deaf history, and I could go on forever about it!

Institution in Paris
http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/page...heldelepee.htm

American School for the Deaf
http://www.asd-1817.org/history/index.html

Bilingual/Bi-cultural Education
http://deafness.about.com/cs/communi.../bilingual.htm

**MyrddinsPrecint** · 12-10-2008 12:36 AM

The last year....

I decided to join the Peace Corps

Telk and I broke up.

I helped organize USACFCs the same week as my grandmother died, temorarily killing any interest in actually fencing for a while.

I decided not to join the Peace Corps.

I moved to DC.

I want a job, real bad. This is a horrible time to get a job. So now I'm having to think seriously about grad school, but I don't really know what on earth I would get an advanced degree in, and if it would help, since I'm already overqualified for lots of jobs and underexperienced for all the others.

**cornflower** · 12-10-2008 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

The last year....

I decided to join the Peace Corps

Telk and I broke up.

I helped organize USACFCs the same week as my grandmother died, temorarily killing any interest in actually fencing for a while.

I decided not to join the Peace Corps.

I moved to DC.

I want a job, real bad. This is a horrible time to get a job. So now I'm having to think seriously about grad school, but I don't really know what on earth I would get an advanced degree in, and if it would help, since I'm already overqualified for lots of jobs and underexperienced for all the others.

What was your undergrad major? I'm majoring in English and Sociology at Gallaudet University at the moment.

**MyrddinsPrecint** · 12-11-2008 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by cornflower

What was your undergrad major? I'm majoring in English and Sociology at Gallaudet University at the moment.

Mathematics. It was a lot of fun, but it doesn't directly translate to a job, since I don't have the stats credits. On the other hand, when I then try to get the liberal artsy jobs, they look at math and say "ooh, that must have been really hard, you must be too smart for this job".

When I go for the more involved jobs, they want more real life experience. When I go for the crap jobs, they're convinced I'll get a better offer and ditch quickly.

Grrr.

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	Register Help Remember Me? Forum General Fencing Water Cooler So How Is Everybody Doing? Closed Thread Results 1 to 9 of 9 Thread: So How Is Everybody Doing? Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page… Subscribe to this Thread… Display Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode 12-05-2008 09:37 PM #1 cornflower Senior Member Array Join Date Aug 2004 Location DC Posts 2,106 So How Is Everybody Doing? I'm feeling particularly friendly (I think it's the half-bottle of Sauvignon Blanc and some weird sparkling rosé that I've had in the past hour), and I want to know what's up with you all! It's been a while since I've really been active on this board, and I want to know how everybody's doing, and if anything important happened forum-wise in the past year. Love you all! 12-05-2008 10:30 PM #2 lefty_monster Senior Member Array Join Date May 2005 Location Over there --> Posts 3,895 I'm dying to know and none of my friends can tell me: What is the ASL sign for fencing? The monster has been lurking instead of posting lately. I seem to have gotten a life... or something resembling a life... We now return to our regularly scheduled programming. Founding Father of the 516,649 Post Thread. http://www.fencing.net/forums/thread29458.html 12-06-2008 03:51 AM #3 Cry_Me_A_River Senior Member Array Join Date Nov 2007 Location Alleyways Posts 203 How I'm feeling depends on what your wearing. So... Yea, I'm still a noob. Big WOOP. Wanna fight about it? 12-06-2008 04:06 AM #4 mrbiggs Senior Member Array Join Date Mar 2004 Location Long Island Posts 8,106 I'm doing OK. How are you? 12-06-2008 01:37 PM #5 PeterGustafsson Senior Member Array Join Date Nov 2002 Location Sweden Posts 3,807 Hi Cornflower! Nice to hear(see) from you! I have recently gooten a bad case of electionnewsjunkieitis, an coupled with 2.5 hours of commuting to my new job I have posted less here than previously. Could you do some Youtube snips of fencing terminolgy in ASL, and any other SL you know? (Come to think of it: what is the level of SL bilinguality among those who speak at least one SL?) Have a nice time! Peter Gustafsson 12-07-2008 10:17 PM #6 cornflower Senior Member Array Join Date Aug 2004 Location DC Posts 2,106 Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson Hi Cornflower! Nice to hear(see) from you! I have recently gooten a bad case of electionnewsjunkieitis, an coupled with 2.5 hours of commuting to my new job I have posted less here than previously. Could you do some Youtube snips of fencing terminolgy in ASL, and any other SL you know? (Come to think of it: what is the level of SL bilinguality among those who speak at least one SL?) Have a nice time! Peter Gustafsson What do you do for work? I hope the commute is worth it, for a job that you hopefully enjoy! Maybe I will do that Youtube thing! But there aren't many signs for fencing terms that I know of. The sign for "fencing" is made when you form your hand into the ASL hand-shape for the letter "A" (as if you were holding a french grip), hold it out, and then wiggle it a bit. Re: sign languages, that is a very good question. I don't know the answer, but I can tell you that in the Eastern French-speaking parts of Canada, there are many signing Quebecers who are fluent in both ASL and LSQ (Langue des signes québécoise). And I am friends with a Deaf man (one of my childhood role models) who is fluent in ASL, BSL (British Sign Language) and Japanese Sign Language. There are increasing amounts of Deaf people doing studies in Deaf studies, ASL, sign languages, visual communication, and visual languages. I have attended many seminars, presentations and forums on a variety of topics related to this at Gallaudet University. A BRIEF HISTORY LESSON!: LSQ is far more similar to ASL than it is to LSF (Langue des signes francaise). The basis of modern ASL was formed from LSF. LSF was developed in France, and used at Institution Nationale des sourds-muets de Paris. When an American gentleman (Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet) came to Europe to investigate methods of instructing the Deaf, he happened upon the Institution. He met Laurent Clerc--a graduate of the Institution and a teacher there--and asked him to come to America with him (but not without some encouragement from the headmaster, because Clerc was suspicious of Gallaudet's Protestant, non-Catholic background!). Clerc brought his French sign language to America, and ASL was then developed from an amalgamation of LSF and the sign language used in America at the time (MVSL--Martha's Vineyard Sign Language). Together, Clerc and Gallaudet founded the very first Deaf institution in America in 1817: the Hartford School for the Deaf, now known as the American School for the Deaf. Gallaudet did stop by England, but the Deaf institution there was operated by the Braidwoods, and run as a family business. They were unwilling to share their "secret" methods (of an oralist kind, I believe, very unwise in my opinion), and pretty much told Gallaudet to bugger off unless there was some sort of royalty involved in regards to instructing deaf children with their methods. Gallaudet was strapped for time and money, so he declined to become involved with the Braidwoods, and moved on to the Institution in Paris (where they used the manual method as opposed to the oral). It is important to know that because of Braidwood's reluctance to accommodate Gallaudet, British Sign Language is very different from ASL, and they have different histories in regards to development. I don't know much BSL, only how to spell out the manual alphabet, and if needed, "You're crap at football!" hehehe! But while we're on the topic of bilingualism... more schools/programs for the Deaf in North America are adopting a "bilingual/bi-cultural" philosophy. This means treating the Deaf language/culture and the Hearing language/culture as separate entities. This philosophy holds the view that (especially in the very beginning) Deaf children are by default, inherently and naturally visual; and that ASL must first be taught, and then English in the manner of a second language. The philosophy holds that clear and efficient communication right from the beginning, is more important than anything else. This is demonstrated by many children who are put into oral education programs; but if by the time they are 7 or so, they haven't become "oral successes" and judged "oral failures," they are put into sign language programs. Thus Deaf people are often left with the job of cleaning up the failure to turn a Deaf child into someone who could pass for a hearing person. Mind, there are children who do become "oral successes," and go on to lead happy, "normal" lives; but what of the "oral failures?" The weakness of oral education programs early in the day was that they placed too much emphasis on audio-verbal skills, rather than actual literacy education. For example, two 4-year old Deaf children: one oral and another ASL. The oral child might only know 50 words, but the ASL one might know about 500. The acquisition of oral skills for a Deaf child moves at a much slower pace than the acquisition of literacy skills. This can be summed up with: "What is the point of learning to speak, if you have nothing to say?" The Bi-Bi method is supported by research that observes that Deaf children with Deaf parents who use ASL have much better English literacy. I have seen evidence of this first-hand. It is mind boggling! One of my closest school friends is a Deaf child of Deaf parents. She has a Deaf sibling and several other Deaf relatives. So needless to say, her upbringing was rich in communication, and definitely lacking in the communication barriers that many Deaf children of non-signing (hearing) parents experience. My friend's mum has hearing parents, and her literacy skills are not good at all; but my friend, on the other hand, her literacy skills are a hell of a lot better than her mother's. The same thing goes for the Deaf children of Deaf parents that I have met at school (Did you know, 90 percent of Deaf children are born to hearing parents? Only 10 percent are born to Deaf parents). But anyways I've blabbered on long enough... I don't know if it is anything related to your question, Peter, but I hope you learned something! Here are a few interesting web-pages on the history of Deaf people/culture/education in America. I'm fascinated with Deaf history, and I could go on forever about it! Institution in Paris http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/page...heldelepee.htm American School for the Deaf http://www.asd-1817.org/history/index.html Bilingual/Bi-cultural Education http://deafness.about.com/cs/communi.../bilingual.htm 12-10-2008 12:36 AM #7 MyrddinsPrecint Senior Member Array Join Date May 2003 Location Boston Posts 5,723 Blog Entries 37 The last year.... I decided to join the Peace Corps Telk and I broke up. I helped organize USACFCs the same week as my grandmother died, temorarily killing any interest in actually fencing for a while. I decided not to join the Peace Corps. I moved to DC. I want a job, real bad. This is a horrible time to get a job. So now I'm having to think seriously about grad school, but I don't really know what on earth I would get an advanced degree in, and if it would help, since I'm already overqualified for lots of jobs and underexperienced for all the others. - Foodblog - Twitter - Flickr - 12-10-2008 11:14 PM #8 cornflower Senior Member Array Join Date Aug 2004 Location DC Posts 2,106 Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint The last year.... I decided to join the Peace Corps Telk and I broke up. I helped organize USACFCs the same week as my grandmother died, temorarily killing any interest in actually fencing for a while. I decided not to join the Peace Corps. I moved to DC. I want a job, real bad. This is a horrible time to get a job. So now I'm having to think seriously about grad school, but I don't really know what on earth I would get an advanced degree in, and if it would help, since I'm already overqualified for lots of jobs and underexperienced for all the others. What was your undergrad major? I'm majoring in English and Sociology at Gallaudet University at the moment. 12-11-2008 11:55 AM #9 MyrddinsPrecint Senior Member Array Join Date May 2003 Location Boston Posts 5,723 Blog Entries 37 Originally Posted by cornflower What was your undergrad major? I'm majoring in English and Sociology at Gallaudet University at the moment. Mathematics. It was a lot of fun, but it doesn't directly translate to a job, since I don't have the stats credits. On the other hand, when I then try to get the liberal artsy jobs, they look at math and say "ooh, that must have been really hard, you must be too smart for this job". When I go for the more involved jobs, they want more real life experience. When I go for the crap jobs, they're convinced I'll get a better offer and ditch quickly. 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