Epee wire keeps breaking

[wbowman]

I have an epee which keeps having the wire break where it's attached to the plug socket (generally the middle location -- "B" line?).

The possibilities that occur to me are (1) nicking the wire when I'm cutting back the spaghetti tubing or taking off the insulation (which I usually do with emery cloth), or (2) somehow breaking it loose when i pull the body cord plug out of the socket. However, I've tried to be careful with it in those respects, but it just broke again.

Anyone have any suggestions -- either of other possible culprits, or ways to avoid the problems I've mentioned?

[Purple Fencer]

How tight are you cranking the socket? Once you get it firm, STOP. More pressure may contribute to a break (took me years to figure this one out....I had the same problem)

[magic_moose]

In addition, if you wrap it around the post a couple of times, it tends to cut itself even more quickly if you crank it down too tight. Took me awhile to figure this one out too.

[oiuyt]

Another suggestion is to make sure that you're not wrapping too much wire around the post. You want it to not quite make a complete circle. More than that and the wire crosses and can cut itself when the socket is tightened.

-B

edit: Ack, beat to it by the Moose.

[SJCFU#2]

A few suggestions (most of which I'm guessing you've heard before):

First, when you lead the wire to the socket, try feeding it through the channel in the back side of the socket, between the plastic block and the metal bracket. This will help to protect the wire from being accidentally pulled loose. If the socket doesn't have a channel for the wires (or your spaghetti insulation is too large to fit in there) then at least be sure to route the wires around so they come up behind the socket (between the socket and the guard).

Next, when you take the wire to the socket post, try to fit a little bit if spaghetti insulation underneath the washer as well. That way when you tighten down on the post the insulation will take the load and the wire won't get crashed between the washer and the plastic block.

Finally, when you wrap the wire around the socket post, try not to wrap it too tightly lest it get pulled into the threads and cut.

If this is always happens to the same socket then there may also be a sharp edge somewhere in there - possibly on the underside of the washer (these things are often stamped from metal sheets so the edges on one side will often be a little bit sharper than on the other side). You might consider taking the socket post out and either filing the washer to remove any sharp edges or flipping the washer over so that if there is a sharp edge at least it will be pointing away from the plastic block.

[brtech]

Every armorer will tell you something that may conflict with some other armorer. The above post, recommending trapping the spaghetti under the washer is one.

I don't recommend you do that. What that does is create uneven pressure on the wire, and puts too much pressure on the wire on the opposite side of the washer where the insulation would be. I recommend that you wrap the wire around the socket a little less than a full turn, and leave the spaghetti right up to, but not underneath the washer. Then the nut will exert uniform pressure on one turn of wire all the way around.

I do think bringing the wires up behind the socket is a good idea. If I were a very suspicious person, I would suspect wires that came up through that gap between the plastic body and the bracket. If I were to be hiding a switch, I'd connect it to the wires inside that gap and you could never tell it was there. So, I wouldn't thread the wires up into that channel.

Nicking the wire when stripping the insulation often will create a weak spot. You should use a tool that won't nick the wire to remove the insulation. If you don't have a tool, use a piece of emory cloth, which can remove the outer insulation and remove the varnish on the german wires if you use them.

[wbowman]

... the insulation will take the load and the wire won't get crashed between the washer and the plastic block.

...You might consider taking the socket post out and either filing the washer to remove any sharp edges or flipping the washer over so that if there is a sharp edge at least it will be pointing away from the plastic block.

Hmmm .. I've always put the wire on top of the washer, between the washer and the nut. Maybe i've been doing it wrong.
I did think about sharp edges on the washer, but more in terms of turning it over so it's convex on the wire side because they tend not to be entirely flat.

[SJCFU#2]

To be perfectly honest I rarely have the patience to thread the wires up through the channel on the back side of the socket or to fit spaghetti insulation underneath the washer myself - I usually seem to do well enough by with simply not wrapping too much wire in there (that way it won't cross itself) and taking a little care to ensure that the wire doesn't get pulled into the threads (the other place where it can easily get cut).

[brtech]

You put the wire under the washer so that it doesn't get twisted by tightening the nut.

You want less than a full turn of wire so that the washer exerts uniform pressure on the wire, with no high spots (like where the wire would cross over itself if you wrapped more than one turn around the socket).

A small trick is to hold the wire with a couple of fingers to keep it in place, and hold another finger on the washer so it doesn't rotate as you tighten the nut.

[acaba]

To be perfectly honest I rarely have the patience to thread the wires up through the channel on the back side of the socket ...

I have been doing this for near a decade and have never had the wire break at the socket since I started. Four minutes of tinkering saves lots of time w/ broken wires.To make life easier when re-wiring, I loosen the screws that hold the plastic socket body to the metal support bracket and the spaghetti wire slides niceley into the pocket. Just remember to re-tighten the screws or your socket will be loose and cause grounding problems.

One of my friends (acarter) has actually drilled holes in his socket to run the spaghetti wire through. Same idea, but only needed if you use non-german sockets that don't have the channel already molded in.

Aaron

[wbowman]

I guess I always assumed that the wire had to be on the other side of the plug, where it was harder to reach and mess with during a bout.

I think I'll try putting it under the washer and see how that works. My previous assumption was that there would be better contact if the wire were between two pieces of metal rather than between metal and plastic.

Thanks, everyone, for some very helpful suggestions.

wb

[Fechter1]

I guess I always assumed that the wire had to be on the other side of the plug, where it was harder to reach and mess with during a bout.

I've been told the same thing, and told to check for that specifically when checking weapons...

I think I'll try putting it under the washer and see how that works. My previous assumption was that there would be better contact if the wire were between two pieces of metal rather than between metal and plastic.

Just make sure you take your time, don't overtighten the nut/screw, make sure there's enough slack in the wire, don't cross the wire (i.e. wrap it almost once around, not more).

Other than that, I'd have to see it in action.

[wbowman]

Actually, I took another look last night while I was fixing the thing, and that little channel IS on the other side of the block from the hand. May try using it next time I put a weapon together from scratch.

Anyway, I've got it UNDER the washer now. Let's see how long it lasts this time.

[Purple Fencer]

I guess I always assumed that the wire had to be on the other side of the plug, where it was harder to reach and mess with during a bout.

Yes....the wires have to be in a position so the fingers can't get to them...the best way IS to runthe wires up behind the socket. That's what the channels are for....but you are NOT required to use them if they're present. Simply running the wires up the back side is sufficient.

[monitorlizerd]

You can also put solder lugs on the end of the wires, with a small piece of shrink tubing to insulate the tail on the lug where the wire is wrapped (or soldered, if your'e ambitious) Fit the lug over the post of the socket, then screw it down with the tail on the outside of the bracket.
This makes for a very robust connection, and not an easy one to break.
Lots of ways to do this...

Susie

[brtech]

You can also put solder lugs on the end of the wires, with a small piece of shrink tubing to insulate the tail on the lug where the wire is wrapped (or soldered, if your'e ambitious) Fit the lug over the post of the socket, then screw it down with the tail on the outside of the bracket.
This makes for a very robust connection, and not an easy one to break.
Lots of ways to do this...

Susie

Solder it. Wrapped wire is unreliable, even with shrink. There is something called "wire wrap", but that is a connection made by wrapping a small diameter wire tightly around a square post. You get a cold weld between the wire and the corners of the post. Just bending a wire around the hole in a lug is not a good connection. Solder it, and you get a good joint.

Some have interpreted the following line from m.5

Both the wire and the insulating sheath must go right up to
the socket.

as prohibiting the lug

[wbowman]

Solder it. Wrapped wire is unreliable, even with shrink. ... Just bending a wire around the hole in a lug is not a good connection. Solder it, and you get a good joint.

Some have interpreted the following line from m.5

as prohibiting the lug

Seconded... since I tried this on a few of my weapons. Actually, one of them still has good connections, but i suspect that's just luck.