A lot of people have been saying recently that "Allstar/Uhlmann quality has fallen", but I have not been able to find any specific defects mentioned. I am particularly concerned about the Startex jacket and breeches. Numerous recent threads have mentioned a drop in the quality of these items, and I am interested in hearing specific examples. Are the seams poorly stitched? Is the tailoring bad? Is the material worse than it used to be? I am currently under the impression that Startex uses the same material as LP sydney. Is this true? (Does Negrini also use this material?) In addition, the Allstar website claims that "100% of allstar protective equipment is made at our factory in Reutlingen." If this is the case, and the material is indeed the same as LP sydney material, why should the quality have fallen? Or is the Allstar website lying?
Cheers.
responses from Barry Paul Alex Paul Leon Paul are always welcome
I'm furious over the quality of the Allstar FIE mask I bought four months ago. The so-called INOX mesh already has many rust spots, whereas the Allstar FIE I bought in 1999 is still rust free, despite being exposed to much worse conditions. I've already switched to an FWF uniform and, while it has its issues, it represents an excellent value. I won't buy another Allstar mask and I hope others won't either. I didn't want to believe their quality was off since "Made in Germany" became "Chinese parts assembled in Germany."
Thank you Durando, that is exactly the sort of experience I want to hear about. Anybody else have stories? I am looking for positive stories as well as negative. Actually, could anybody who has bought anything from Allstar or Uhlmann in the last 5 years please describe the experience?
I have an Allstar uniform from 2002 that's held up very well all these years. My electric parts from them have been trouble recently (epee screws that don't fit properly, tips that breaks easily, etc). I've switched to FWF for my electric parts.
I have an Allstar uniform from 2002 that's held up very well all these years. My electric parts from them have been trouble recently (epee screws that don't fit properly, tips that breaks easily, etc). I've switched to FWF for my electric parts.
yup, I no longer buy the uhlmann "german" tips any more... I go for the FWF as well (Which is the old German supplier for Uhlmann IIRC). Definite difference on manufacturing quality.
Also have a uniform from 2002 (?) which is holding up quite well still.
I recently purchased a AllStar electic sabre mask and thek shell is different (made in China) vs circa 2004 AllStar. FWF made the mask shells for AllStar and Uhlmann. The problem I have with FWF is that I don't like the cut of their sabre lames and the material tends to rust. I also recently purchased a AllStar electric sabre glove and lame but do not see any real difference vs. circa 2004 AllStar.
My 2004 breeches and jacket are still holding up, although I did just invest fifty quid in having ALL the velcro and zippers replaced - its now as good as new again. But the Uhlmann glove I bought last year had the velcro stitch completely unravel. I have never had a glove fail here before the leather went into holes - I was not impressed. Two new epee bell guards bought at the same time lasted two weeks before the rivets failed. I have bell guards from ten years ago that are still in working order; this is pathetic.
I have a clubmate whose Uhlmann sabre lame's lining shredded in the first month he had it.
I on the other hand still have had no quality issues with the stuff. My present practice and competition masks are both Allstars, as are my lames. All have held up about as well for as long as those which I had before them. My Allstart body cord is my most reliable.
Maybe I've just been lucky so far, though.
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Two Uhlmann-wired epees and body cords purchased two years ago are still in very good condition (light to moderate use). This includes tips, bellguards, and sockets.
Too bad to hear about the quality concerns. I had always considered Uhlmann to be top notch. I think I'll lean towards Leon Paul in the future.
Incidentally, an Allstar masked purchased circa 1994 and used for about 6 non-consecutive years is only just now showing its age, mostly around the fabric seams. The mesh is in great condition.
The Uhlmann equipment I have dates back to mid 2005 and early 2006, so I'm assuming it was all produced after the outsourcing began.
The 2005-dated equipment includes a World Cup jacket and standard FIE foil/epee mask. Both have held up reasonably well, although at this point the mask padding is completely shredded, and the outer edges of the bib are fraying in several places. The metal binding at the rear of the mesh also has multiple cracks. One of the jacket's two layers has worn completely in a couple of areas - under the armpit of the weapon arm and on the bottom part of the non-weapon arm.
The equipment from 2006 includes a foil lame and a Champion glove. The glove has almost no grip left on it, two holes on the fingers have had to be stitched up, and almost half of the velcro has had to be re-stitched as well. The lame still passes resistance checks, with no dead spots. However, the groin strap broke after about a year, and a small part of the inner lining has frayed.
So in all, everything but the lame probably needs to be replaced in the next year. That's a lifespan of about 3-3.5 years. I'd have expected the jacket and the mask to have lasted longer than that, to be honest.
What would be useful is a comparison with Uhlmann equipment of a similar type made before 2004.
Our club bought some Uhlmann bodycords in 2006 I think. The wire itself is garbage. The wire is super stiff has broken clean off near the base of the two prong connector in several of them.
I have a two year and four year old pair of Startex breeches and quality is the same. Both are made in Germany. Allstar finish has always been poor. The velcro wears out, zips, braces and straps have to be replaced. However the material itself is good and I like the cut. However I think I'll be trying Paul for my next jacket depending on fit.
I have had three Champion glove and usually get about a year out of one. By that point is has holes, grip is gone and velcro worn out. My latest glove was made in Hungary, previous one were made in Germany. I plan to try PBT grippy glove next.
AFAIK Allstar/Ulmann masks shells, lames and points were the only products outsourced toChina and it is these products where quality is poorest.
I have an Uhlmann Olympia (full-stretch) knickers 2005 and jacket 2006. Nothing bad with them so far,but I wear them at most, once a week for competition. I've tried to take very good care of them.
A friend gave me his old All-star knickers 2002 (the one that's not full stretch) and I want to saw the quality of stitching and thread used are noticeably different. However, this may be because better stiching is required to keep the mutliple panels of the knickers together since they're not completely made of the same material.
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Last edited by Delta; 11-24-2008 at 12:35 PM..
Reason: forgot to add the years they were made
A couple problems. My Uhlmann mask (2005) became very rusty. I cleaned and repainted the spots only to have it continue to corrode. Several Uhlman foil body cords also failed.
I've got an Uhlmann World Cup uniform, I've had it for three years, and its in great condition.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
I bought a AllStar sabre lame, sabre electric glove and sabre mask this past June. The lame material doesn't look any different than circa 2004. My guess is that is not China sourced. Everything is made in Germany. The only difference I see is in the mask shell which is apparently sourced from China.
My jacket and knickers are both Uhlmann FIE ( non-stretch ) circa 2004. The
latter are in better shape than the former, because I only wear them for competitions. But both have held up just fine. Even the jacket cuissard strap is still intact, though a bit frayed.
Lamés are also Uhlmann ( not Allstar as previously reported ). My competition one is about a year and a half old, my practice one about two and a half. Condition is as mentioned above.
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Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
Here is an example: My Uhlmann epee socket keeps getting unscrewed from the bracket. I don't even use the weapon that much, and this hasn't happened with other brands (AF, Physical Chess, Leon Paul). Plus, the FWF logo looks cooler. In conclusion, Uhlmann sucks. The end.
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