Fencing Master Diploma – Need one?

[MdA]

Please pardon me while I step back up on my soapbox. I have been containing myself …a little. Please note that in this recent thread; 80-year-old fencing club in Copenhagen is looking for a new Fencing Master with a diploma.

Fencing master wanted in Denmark

This is an example for those members of this forum who say that I consistently fail to prove the case for certification. I don’t have to prove the case for certification. I will let respected, established clubs, in the heart of the world fencing community do it for me.

Now I admit that most American coaches are not ready to relocate to Copenhagen, but wouldn’t it be nice? After doing all the work to become qualified for such a position, wouldn’t it make sense to obtain the diploma along the way?

Here is a picture of an AAI Fencing Master Diploma

Of course, this post is probably not intended for most of us American coaches out here in the “Wild Wild West” They’re probably trying to hire one of our European trained Masters. But, if I were a young American coach, I would probably want to be competitive in the global fencing economy.

[Allen Evans]

MdA, let's turn the telescope the other way. Would you consider a Maitre diploma from the USFCA qualification enough for this position? I wouldn't.

AE

[keith]

Originally Posted by MdA

This is an example for those members of this forum who say that I consistently fail to prove the case for certification.

Indeed you do. There are many organisations that provide many, many, certifications.

I even have one in Thai.

Exactly what you should do with a certificate when presented with one varies a great deal.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by keith

Indeed you do. There are many organisations that provide many, many, certifications.

I even have one in Thai.

Exactly what you should do with a certificate when presented with one varies a great deal.

You don't need one in Thai for this position. It says "Fencing Master Diploma" and fluent in English. Have you got both of those?

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

MdA, let's turn the telescope the other way. Would you consider a Maitre diploma from the USFCA qualification enough for this position? I wouldn't.

AE

No. But, you need it to meet their basic requirements. It's like a job posting that says Masters degree required.

As one of our other forum members has said, the diploma is a starting point, not the end point. There are many other requirements for this position which are listed in the post.

[keith]

Originally Posted by MdA

You don't need one in Thai for this position. It says "Fencing Master" and fluent in English. Have you got both of those?

Haven't got one and frequently accused of lacking the other.

....but I do have a doctors note certifying both shoulders as chip free.

Vinegar?

[noodle]

i think another question to ask would be, how would a USFCA certification compare to, say, a degree from the Academy of Physical Education in Katowice, Kiev Institute of Physical Education, or Institute National du Sport in Paris? do you think they're equivalent, and do you think that when they say "diploma" in this job posting the USFCA program is interchangable with degrees from the other 'major' fencing institutions?

[MdA]

Originally Posted by noodle

i think another question to ask would be, how would a USFCA certification compare to, say, a degree from the Academy of Physical Education in Katowice, Kiev Institute of Physical Education, or Institute National du Sport in Paris? do you think they're equivalent, and do you think that when they say "diploma" in this job posting the USFCA program is interchangable with degrees from the other 'major' fencing institutions?

This is a lot like asking; How does a medical degree from Harvard compare to one from the University of Chicago, UT Galveston or Bonn?

The INS was affiliated with the AAI. The USFCA is also a member of the AAI and meets its requirements. Katowice and Kiev are not AAI member insitutitons so it would be up to the hiring officials at the club in Copenhagen to determine how they compare.

As I said, the diploma is a starting point. As Keith has said, what you do with it after you earn it varies a great deal. The point I am trying to make is that the diploma or certificate is a step that we often like to discourage in America and it is not that way in the rest of the fencing world.

I recommend that young American coaches start their certification with the USFCA at the Moniteur and Prevot levels...if you work your way into "Harvard" for your Masters degree...great!

[Tomas N]

One thing that strikes me as odd in this conversation is that young people in this country are always looking for certification for every activity that they do. Can I triple major? That must be better than two or one. Can I get credit for that internship? That would put it on my resume. Can I study abroad? That would send a signal that I have international experience. Should I get an MBA? That would get me a better job.

Many students seem to be filling their days with getting their resume stamped with different activities. Yet no one seems to either care about getting a certification or care about hiring someone with certification. That either means the signal is not valuable, or ... actually, I can't think of another reason.

Maybe sports just are different in the U.S. If I hire you as a basketball coach for my school, do you need certification? Not as far as I can tell. All that matters is experience and results.

Tomas

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Tomas N

Maybe sports just are different in the U.S. If I hire you as a basketball coach for my school, do you need certification? Not as far as I can tell. All that matters is experience and results.

Tomas

This is my point. The rest of the world seems to think differently about sports....because they have credible education, training and certification programs...we have them ...but we don't apply them to all levels. We think...its just middle school...anybody can do it....we also like to hire and fire coaches...which is disruptive to development.

Then we fencers are fickle...we like to flip the coin and say things like "USFCA is not as good as Katowice or Kiev"...so we talk our fellow coaches out of the certifications that we have available. USFCA Moniteur certification would be a good start for a junior high school fencing coach.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by MdA

This is a lot like asking; How does a medical degree from Harvard compare to one from the University of Chicago, UT Galveston or Bonn?

The INS was affiliated with the AAI. The USFCA is also a member of the AAI and meets its requirements. Katowice and Kiev are not AAI member insitutitons so it would be up to the hiring officials at the club in Copenhagen to determine how they compare.

As I said, the diploma is a starting point. As Keith has said, what you do with it after you earn it varies a great deal. The point I am trying to make is that the diploma or certificate is a step that we often like to discourage in America and it is not that way in the rest of the fencing world.

I recommend that young American coaches start their certification with the USFCA at the Moniteur and Prevot levels...if you work your way into "Harvard" for your Masters degree...great!

well, i mean, to be fair, there ARE ways to compare those degrees, and you touched on one (AAI). and there might not be a huge difference between a harvard medical degree and a bonn one, but there's going to be a difference between harvard medical degree and a first aid CPR certification.

imo, USFCA needs to play up its own credentials and such.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by MdA

This is a lot like asking; How does a medical degree from Harvard compare to one from the University of Chicago, UT Galveston or Bonn?

Actually, it's a lot more like asking, "How does a medical degree from Harvard compare to First Aid Certification?"

The point that coaches should get the "First Aid Certification" because it is the only thing available in the US is, perhaps, a potent one, but the idea that having it gives one more competitive options (like a job at a club in Copenhagen) is suspect.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by noodle

well, i mean, to be fair, there ARE ways to compare those degrees, and you touched on one (AAI). and there might not be a huge difference between a harvard medical degree and a bonn one, but there's going to be a difference between harvard medical degree and a first aid CPR certification.

imo, USFCA needs to play up its own credentials and such.

Damn it! You beat me...

[MdA]

Originally Posted by noodle

imo, USFCA needs to play up its own credentials and such.

Originally Posted by Jason

Damn it! You beat me...

You guys must be a team. Which one is Jerry and which is Dean Martin? I can't tell who sings and gets the girl.

[Adler]

Originally Posted by MdA

The INS was affiliated with the AAI. The USFCA is also a member of the AAI and meets its requirements.

Just out of interest what are the AAI requirements for a Fencing Masters Diploma?

[MdA]

I am glad you asked.

http://escrime.org/english_version/criteria.htm

[Allen Evans]

Does this mean that there is now a requirement for hours of instruction by the USFCA to take a Maitre exam? Walter Green has alluded to this in some of the announcements he's made, but I haven't seen a formal requirement posted anywhere.

AE

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

Does this mean that there is now a requirement for hours of instruction by the USFCA to take a Maitre exam? Walter Green has alluded to this in some of the announcements he's made, but I haven't seen a formal requirement posted anywhere.

AE

This is a complicated question...but the quick answer right now is no...not yet. Walter and Jerry Benson are working on an independent task force for the USFA on coaches training, curriculum and levels. This is a work in process and I don’t want to make any comments because I am not on the task force.

Vinnie and I used these hourly requirements at the Pan American Fencing Academy a few years ago. The newly elected CAB is producing clinic requirements for the first three levels. You would need to contact the new CAB chairman.

[Allen Evans]

I assume the website will be updated with these new requirements when they are official, and an announcement will be made to the members?

AE

[MdA]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

I assume the website will be updated with these new requirements when they are official, and an announcement will be made to the members?

AE

Yes. That is the goal.