Fencing Master Diploma – Need one?

[telkanuru]

So the people who have eared their cert before the requirementes toughened up have lucked out?

[MdA]

So the people who have eared their cert before the requirementes toughened up have lucked out?

Consider it an early shoppers discount....and some folks have said we need to beef them up.

Seriously, I am assuming that we will count credit hours in the future the way we did at the Pan American Fencing Academy. We gave you credit for the courses you took in the past. So my advice to coaches is to make a list of every coaching course you ever took.

Get certificates attendance with the number of hours (if possible). This includes CPR and First Aid courses (the real ones).

Here is an opportunity for about 12 hours

http://askfred.net/Clinics/whoIsComi...clinic_id=7258

and here are another 12 hours in April 2009

http://askfred.net/Clinics/whoIsComi...clinic_id=7385

and another in May 2009

http://askfred.net/Clinics/moreInfo.php?clinic_id=7236

[darius]

I, for one, welcome the tougher requirements.

Maybe it's Eurocentrism, but the USFCA's diploma isn't well-respected worldwide. If that changes, count me in. Until then, if I want a FM diploma, I'll spend a few months seeking out the sources of knowledge previously mentioned (note the emphasis on education, not certification?)

This isn't necessarily only the US; Canada has this problem too. But given that they're working on centralized coach education and competency-based training that fits into a model for all sports, that looks like forward progress. (Not that I'm criticizing the USFCA on this - it looks like you guys are doing the same.)

darius

[oiuyt]

In the last year or two the USFCA has moved AWAY from some of the criteria in that document.

Perhaps "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."?

-B

[RITFencing]

How strict is the requirement for instruction in historical fencing?

[MdA]

In the last year or two the USFCA has moved AWAY from some of the criteria in that document.

Perhaps "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."?

-B

Aye matey, now yur gettin' it ...and when you try to get twenty countries to agree on "guidelines"...somtimes ya get actual rules.

How strict is the requirement for instruction in historical fencing?

I hear tell that in the Caribbean, and other countries, the requirement for historical is a little more...not so much in the USFCA...especially in the last year or two...

Seriously, the USFCA exams comply with the AAI criteria...the training...well just read the other threads in this forum....we're workin' on it.

I’m just the pirate rogue member of this fleet trying to help ya navigate semi-uncharted waters. As for the exams, submit your stuff along with the others, and stand fast!

[MdA]

....
Maybe it's Eurocentrism, but the USFCA's diploma isn't well-respected worldwide. If that changes, count me in. Until then, if I want a FM diploma, I'll spend a few months seeking out the sources of knowledge previously mentioned (note the emphasis on education, not certification?)
....
darius

Darius,

I don't agree with you on this point. I know you and you are a great coach and your fencers have achieved great results. You have studied under some of the best in the business and you have great experience. IMO you could easily pass the USFCA Prevot exam with some minor prep work...and the FM with a thesis and some additional work. You could then go to one of the European Academies with at least your Prevot completed....if you choose to wait on the Masters.

This is like someone passing up a degree at a local college in order to wait for the chance at a more prestigious institution...you may never get the chance again. There are many examples of persons who have gone on from community college degrees to earn doctorates at the best universities.

You never know what twists and turns life may throw in your path.

If you are ready, you should take the exams...even from what you and others believe is a less prestigious Academy...you can always continue your studies in Europe later...and obtain your "well-respected" degree….but you can go having already achieved some level of international certification (AAI). Yes, your classmates may laugh and tease you about your American certification...but the level of American fencing is on the rise...and you will need to prove yourself all-over-again anyway....even more if you walk in with no paper at all.

This goes against what we (and others) have said here...about it not being about the titles and the degrees...the respect will be for you and not for the institution.

You and other may also be thinking "What right do these guys have to sit in judgment over me?" I guarantee you will encounter the same feelings at any institution in the world no matter how prestigious. There will be members of any examination board with whom you may not agree. Don't let this stop you.

[Allen Evans]

I'm not going to presume to know what Darius makes as a coach, or if he has a day job, but right now, traveling (and taking a student, perhaps) to a test along with fees and hotel and everything else is a significant expense he might not want to undertake.

It cost me almost $500 to take my Prevost, 12 years ago (I had to fly from Seattle to San Diego to find a board). That was no small amount of money for me at the time. He might want to use those resources on something other than a USFCA exam.

I'm picking on Darius as an example without knowing his situation. But I'm sure that there are others who are in this boat. To make matters worse, there is still little specific information about what a Prevot or Maitre exam will entail. You may fly someplace, pay your fees, take a hotel room, only to find that the coaching you're doing in the Middle of Nowhere, USA, is not up to the standards of your board.

I know. change is coming to the USFCA. But, MdA, you can't blame coaches who want to wain until change has arrived before they stand for an exam.

AE

[oiuyt]

Heh. Sounds a bit like testing as a referee.

Summer 2007 I say my FIE exam. Travel to Mont Tremblant, Canada (fortunately driveable at about 1100 miles round trip). Pricey resort hotel ($226/night for 5 nights, although I could split the room 4 nights). Resort prices for food. Oh, and paying the testing fees.

With no guarantees about the testing.

Or trying to compete as an elite athlete. Lots of people have plenty of experience with how expensive a trip to a World Cup can be. Again with no guarantee of "success".

-B

[MdA]

......
It cost me almost $500 to take my Prevost, 12 years ago (I had to fly from Seattle to San Diego to find a board). That was no small amount of money for me at the time. He might want to use those resources on something other than a USFCA exam.
.....
AE

Your right. He may want to save that $500 for the $15-20K it will cost him to live and study in Europe....and the price is going up everyday....also with no guarantee. The only way to pass the exams...is to take the exams....and repeat if necessary.

[darius]

There are many examples of persons who have gone on from community college degrees to earn doctorates at the best universities.

Of course, there are many examples of college dropouts who achieve highly through hard (and smart) work.

You definitely have some good points, and I've considered testing for Prevot (can I jump right to it, or do I have to go through Moniteur first?). But it would have to be part of something where I'd be attending for the knowledge. The April clinic seems interesting, given that I'm a big fan of Gia, and would love to listen to what he's got to say, or maybe the annual conference, although it's likely to conflict with obligations at the club.

I do tend to agree with Allen, though -- before I plunk down a bunch of hard-earned money (much harder-earned than before I was a full-time fencing coach), I'd want to feel certain that the USFCA was creating an experience that I'd feel worthwhile about. Certification, at this point, doesn't really carry a competitive advantage in the US, so if I'm doing it "for the experience", that's why something like Italy or Hungary makes more sense, because they'll have perspectives which will be far harder to obtain. (I'd love to see some in-depth stuff on Hungarian and Italian footwork pedagogies, for example) The worldwide respect thing is gravy, so it probably shouldn't have been the center of my post.

Also, competence is good, but organization is huge. You guys don't currently even have the Prevot/Maitre requirements up on the USFCA website, so it'd be hard to know what to even study. And, of course, I got ... what ... 2 Swordmasters for last year's membership fee? (You reading this, Kandlik? Don't make me walk over to your apartment...)

darius

[Allen Evans]

Your right. He may want to save that $500 for the $15-20K it will cost him to live and study in Europe....and the price is going up everyday....also with no guarantee. The only way to pass the exams...is to take the exams....and repeat if necessary.

But remember, that $500 was only the price of the exam I spent thousands of dollars taking lessons from coaches and going to Colorado Springs to get training from a completely seperate organization without knowing if I was going to be tested by the USFCA on any of it. And, as a matter of fact, the Board did disagree with some of the things being taught by the coaches at Colorado Springs, to the level where one of the examiners had serious questions about my ability to coach my primary weapon (epee, at the time).

I can't help but wholeheartedly agree with Darius. He may travel to Europe and fail the exam....though I suspect he won't have any trouble when he finally goes. However, read between the lines in all of our posts MdA: committing to an exam in Europe is simply shorthand for committing to getting a complete and rounded fencing education by coaches who know the sport. As it currently stands, committing to a USFCA exam is simply committing to an exam.

AE

[MdA]

....You definitely have some good points, and I've considered testing for Prevot (can I jump right to it, or do I have to go through Moniteur first?). But it would have to be part of something where I'd be attending for the knowledge. The April clinic seems interesting, given that I'm a big fan of Gia, and would love to listen to what he's got to say, or maybe the annual conference, although it's likely to conflict with obligations at the club.
..... And, of course, I got ... what ... 2 Swordmasters for last year's membership fee? (You reading this, Kandlik? Don't make me walk over to your apartment...)
darius

You can take the Prevot exam at the Gia Foil Clinic on April 5, 2009. You do not need to take the Moniteur exam first. The procedures are the same as the Masters exam process that is attached...except at a lower skill level.

If I was the webmaster, I would have fixed the website by now instead of spending all my time answering questions on f.net (although this is more fun) but I can't do everything....and don't think I haven't tried.

Don't be too hard on Aaron. It takes a lot of time to edit a newsletter and he is a volunteer...and a full-time coach...just like you. But, it wouldn't hurt to walk over to his apartment and ask him when the next edition will be out.

[MdA]

..... read between the lines in all of our posts MdA: committing to an exam in Europe is simply shorthand for committing to getting a complete and rounded fencing education by coaches who know the sport. As it currently stands, committing to a USFCA exam is simply committing to an exam.
AE

There are drawbacks and advantages to both options....and personal time and expense...I took my Moniteur and Prevot exams from the USFCA....and my Masters education/training/exam in Germany.

[Phrogger]

Heh. Sounds a bit like testing as a referee.

Summer 2007 I say my FIE exam. Travel to Mont Tremblant, Canada (fortunately driveable at about 1100 miles round trip). Pricey resort hotel ($226/night for 5 nights, although I could split the room 4 nights). Resort prices for food. Oh, and paying the testing fees.

-B

Bleh. I drove 2 hours on $4 a gallon gas and paid for a hotel room and seminar fees only to fail the basic USFA ref exam (I only failed the general; I passed the foil, saber and epee but that's besides the point). Having taken the exam, I now know what I need to do to pass it, but was not offered the opportunity for a next-day retake (It will be another month or so before I can get back up to Raleigh). Now they've changed the exam mid-season so I am wondering if it is worth my time and $$ to take it again. My takeaway: Set a date for major changes to take place, preferably not mid-season.

Feel free to disagree.

[darius]

The USFA ref exam is kinda off-topic, but THEY GIVE YOU ALL THE QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE!!! So barring any learning style which doesn't do well with the written word, it should be cake to study for -- just do the practice exam, go through the rulebook and find the rule which justifies each answer.

[noodle]

The USFA ref exam is kinda off-topic, but THEY GIVE YOU ALL THE QUESTIONS IN ADVANCE!!! So barring any learning style which doesn't do well with the written word, it should be cake to study for -- just do the practice exam, go through the rulebook and find the rule which justifies each answer.

pshaw, i think we all know that passing the written is not as simple as that

[Phrogger]

pshaw, i think we all know that passing the written is not as simple as that

Especially if you live in a fencing vacuum and do not have access to experienced refs who can answer questions.

I'm just saying that changing the rules/criteria without due warning beforehand is a bit inconvenient and possibly expensive for those who may have already studied for existing tests. Quite relevant to the topic. Sort of like studying for the SAT only to find out right beforehand that the format has changed. You still know the information, but now you have to take seminars, buy new study guides, etc. to study for the new test.

[oiuyt]

Now they've changed the exam mid-season so I am wondering if it is worth my time and $$ to take it again. My takeaway: Set a date for major changes to take place, preferably not mid-season.

Feel free to disagree.

I'm just saying that changing the rules/criteria without due warning beforehand is a bit inconvenient and possibly expensive for those who may have already studied for existing tests. Quite relevant to the topic. Sort of like studying for the SAT only to find out right beforehand that the format has changed. You still know the information, but now you have to take seminars, buy new study guides, etc. to study for the new test.

Okay, I feel free to disagree.

Have you looked at the "new" study guide? Beyond the first page, where it discusses what the ratings mean and how to earn them?

If so, have you found any changed questions?

Mmmm. Not sure this is the same thing as a format change in a test someone has spent considerable time and resources preparing for.

Now whether this should have been billed as a new study guide, versus some new informational material about changed ratings standards is a completely separate discussion.

-B

[JEC]

The online testing for Moniteur consists of 100 questions covering a variety of subjects from sports psychology, kinesiology, and risk management, to current rules of foil, epee and saber. It was harder than I expected.