Training with blade cover on.

[chaosblade]

I was wondering if it would improve my speed if I practiced point control and doing lunges with a pvc pipe cover on my blade. I noticed when I do this and then remove it my actions feel 1000x faster. If you did this every day, no doubt your forearm would get bigger and stronger, but would it make your hand faster? Just wondering if anyone else has given this some thought o has tried it themselves.

[Allen Evans]

What you are describing is a method of "overload" training. I think if you give a little thought to this method of overloading, however, you will see why using the blade cover is a very bad idea*.

AE


*Hint: part of the "bad idea" involves the word "point".

[chaosblade]

What you are describing is a method of "overload" training. I think if you give a little thought to this method of overloading, however, you will see why using the blade cover is a very bad idea*.

AE


*Hint: part of the "bad idea" involves the word "point".

I'm slow, can you elaborate?

[InFerrumVeritas]

I'm slow, can you elaborate?

It makes you point control crap.

[telkanuru]

Your muscles get used to having to do more work in order to do the same action, and therefore when you remove the weight, every action will be bigger.

If you want to improve your hand strength, get a dummy arm and do beat-flicks for as long as you can hold a blade.

[LeftHanded]

There are better ways to do this. I know some people at my club get broken saber blades and tape them to the top of the epees when taking a lesson. They bend and really just add weight to work the muscles more. Then they just take it off when fencing. If you what to get faster, practice your lunges more. Also plyometric exercises like jumping rope will help speed.

Avoid anything like a weighted vest. They are ok for something but footwork and lunges are too high impact for the use of a vest and is not god for your knees.

[catwood1]

There are better ways to do this. I know some people at my club get broken saber blades and tape them to the top of the epees when taking a lesson. They bend and really just add weight to work the muscles more. Then they just take it off when fencing. If you what to get faster, practice your lunges more. Also plyometric exercises like jumping rope will help speed.

Avoid anything like a weighted vest. They are ok for something but footwork and lunges are too high impact for the use of a vest and is not god for your knees.

Same problem. If you add resistance, when you remove resistance, your point control will go out the window.

[ddavis]

I'm not sure that it is true that training with a heavier (or lighter) weapon will in all cases be detrimental to point control. I often use both in the course of my training and find that they provide interesting training effects. A couple of keys:
1. Keep the differences within reason. PVC pipe is probably too much weight. You will end up using different muscling to perform the actions instead of simply providing overload to the target muscles. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Soviets did some studies on this and found that the best effects were found when the difference in implement weights cause a change in performance of 10% or less. (This was for track and field)
2. Only do this type of training if your basic actions using a normal weapon are well grooved. I.e. this is not good training for beginners because their motor patterns are too fragile. When they go from heavy weapon to normal weapon, then their point control _will_ be all messed up.

On a more practical level, you often see baseball players swinging a bat with extra weight on it in order to make their swing faster when they step up to the plate. And they will often do this _right before_ they are up! Again, I think the key here is that these guys have their normal swing grooved so well that they can use the extra weight to help active their muscles prior to batting without negatively affecting their fine or gross motor control.

[catwood1]

I think part of the difference compared to baseball players is that a baseball player doesn't stop his swing midway through. A baseball swing follows through ALOT more than a parry 4.

That said, I can understand using it for actions that are very well grooved, NOT for beginners though... calamity will ensue.

[MdA]

... you will see why using the blade cover is a very bad idea*.

I agree this is a bad idea....same answer as foot arm/foot speed thread. "Thousands of reps on a wall target or fencing dummy"

That is why you see wall targets and fencing dummies (manikins) is most reputable fencing salles....and mirrors...gotta have mirrors.

[Cookeit]

Avoid anything like a weighted vest. They are ok for something but footwork and lunges are too high impact for the use of a vest and is not god for your knees.

Footwork = high impact?

whaaaa?

I thought you were supposed to keep it nice, level, and smooth...

I am in favor of the weighted vest, because it distributes the weight evenly throughout the lower body.
Wrist and ankle weights, though, are bad.

[Fechter1]

Footwork = high impact?

whaaaa?

I thought you were supposed to keep it nice, level, and smooth...

I am in favor of the weighted vest, because it distributes the weight evenly throughout the lower body.
Wrist and ankle weights, though, are bad.

I always considered my footwork to be better than average (fnetters who have seen me fence can confirm/deny this), and still my knees are in bad shape.
Believe me, footwork IS pretty high-impact, where impact is defined as more than just the shock of the feet landing, but also the high load on the biomechanics (e.g. lunges). True, good footwork can alleviate some of the impact, but not all (not even the major part IMHO).


As for why the blade protector training is a bad idea...
Basically, you would be training with a blade that has quite different characteristics from what you would use in competition, which means that you would have to relearn blade characteristics at probably the worst possible time.

$.02

[RITFencing]

Your footwork is quite good, but IIRC you do some really big lunges, and I know you're a big guy. You also had/have that issue with leg muscle, and when there's not enough muscle to support the joint and take the impact, the joint is going to suffer.

[oiuyt]

A baseball swing follows through ALOT more than a parry 4.

*Imagines what it would be like watching a beginner make a parry 4 WITH the type of follow-through typically seen in a baseball swing*

*decides it doesn't look that different from some he's actually seen*

*shudders at the memory*

when there's not enough muscle to support the joint and take the impact, the joint is going to suffer.

Hey Arne, I think he just called you a girlie man.

-B

[RITFencing]

I dunno, I usually see beginner parry 4s as more of a downward motion.

A baseball swing that actually closes the line laterally would be an improvement.

I'd be scared of Arne retaliating, but with that leg of his, I don't think he can catch me. :P

[Fechter1]

Hey Arne, I think he just called you a girlie man.

-B

Meh, coming from him...

I'd be scared of Arne retaliating, but with that leg of his, I don't think he can catch me. :P

From what I remember, I could hop on one leg BACKWARDS and still catch you...

Just you all wait... One more surgery, and I'll be back large as life (and twice as ugly )

[catwood1]

*Imagines what it would be like watching a beginner make a parry 4 WITH the type of follow-through typically seen in a baseball swing*

*decides it doesn't look that different from some he's actually seen*

*shudders at the memory*



Hey Arne, I think he just called you a girlie man.

-B

Rep given.

[RITFencing]

Meh, coming from him...


From what I remember, I could hop on one leg BACKWARDS and still catch you...

Just you all wait... One more surgery, and I'll be back large as life (and twice as ugly )

Twice as ugly? Is that even possible? Or is this plastic surgery to look like the elephant man?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

You get better blade work from smoother actions. The smaller and more precise it is the better it will be. Thus being able to control it as much as possible is the goal. Adding weight to the blade does the exact opposite of what you're looking for because it makes your actions bigger and "stronger." When you're practicing bladework you're not trying to gain muscle from it, but muscle memory.

[foibles]

Might consider this...

Weighted Agility Glove