Sectionals 2009

[Inquartata]

greatest good for greatest number.

Hey! Let's have a vote! All in favor of FF sending all of his money and belongings to the Section Chair to be distributed amongst all the other fencers in the Section, say 'aye'.

"Greatest good for the greatest number", wouldn't you say?

I fully expect FF to be the first vote in favor, based on his advocacy of "utilitarianism".

Now, as to numbers. I checked the results on FRED for the last 3 years. 15 for sabre in 2006. 10 in 2007. 8 last year. And so far this year, 6 registered.

Looks like a trend, and one having little to do with location, considering that it was in Boulder 2 of those years...

Whatever happens with participation, I am dubious that it will do anything more than correlate with venue.

[Rockstar44]

You seem to be comparing one division vs another instead of realizing that holding it in Arizona makes ALL the other states have to go.

Thus when considering greatest good for greatest number you have the 215 members of Arizona and their wishes

vs the rest of the entire section.

Assuming at least 1000 fencers thats 785 that potentially have to bend to the rule of the out of the way few.

Granted not eveyone in any division is going but the ratios are the same. I hope you understand ratios.

Arizona isn't closer to the majority of the states in the section. Just isnt. No matter how much you cry about it doesnt make it so.

Apparently the stupid who cant look at a map and come up with a reasonable decision...well they win again.

The sad part is this tourney is going to be very small.

And yes, when last I checked it was cheaper to fly to Colorado than it was to fly to Arizona.

I would have gone to Sectionals if it were held somewhere normal. But Arizona? Hmmmmm... no.

Stupid.....



You can insert any state name you want and it will still read the same. So, what's your point?

Rockstar44

P.S.: I do appreciate that you have toned the language down a little. It makes it easier to have a rational discussion.

[Rockstar44]

You seem to be comparing one division vs another instead of realizing that holding it in Kansas makes ALL the other states have to go.

You are the one who keeps making comparisons. I am only responding to what you post. And, yes, holding it in Kansas makes all the other states have to go there to participate. How could it be otherwise?

Kansas isn't closer to the majority of the states in the section. Just isnt. No matter how much you cry about it doesnt make it so.

You have different maps than the rest of us?

Apparently the stupid who cant look at a map and come up with a reasonable decision....

You got any mirrors in your house? (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one)

The sad part is this tourney is going to be very small.

As of yesterday there were 79 on FRED with three weeks to go. Attendance in Boulder last year was 92. So far it looks about average.

And yes, when last I checked it was cheaper to fly to Colorado than it was to fly to Kansas.

Only for you. Most of the fencers in this section are in Colorado (the greatest number and all that). Are you telling me that Phoenix to Lawrence is cheaper than Denver to Lawrence? Come on, now.

I would have gone to Sectionals if it were held somewhere normal. But Kansas? Hmmmmm... no.

I have been to Kansas. It's pretty normal. After debating you I am beginning to wonder about Arizona, though.

Stupid.....

Well said!

[SabreReedfrost]

Woah woah woah woah woah.... what's not normal about KS? We're like the definition of normal over here... which is why I want to move to Chicago.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by fatfencer
And yes, when last I checked it was cheaper to fly to Colorado than it was to fly to Kansas.

Only for you. Most of the fencers in this section are in Colorado (the greatest number and all that). Are you telling me that Phoenix to Lawrence is cheaper than Denver to Lawrence? Come on, now.

What you should be looking at is whether its cheaper for anyone in the section to fly to a major hub as opposed to Lawrence Kansas. The answer is YES. it will be cheaper. You have absolutely NO grasp of utilitarianism.

Moreover I'm convinced you are using bizarromaps.com The fact that you cannot grasp that Kansas is farther away for most than Colorado is is beyond obtuse.

79... It will likely be less than that. Most divisions havent had their tournaments yet to see if its necessary for them to go. Moreover, had it been centrally located you would have had more people trying to qualify for Div 2 there than you will now that you've decided to hold it in Assleak, KS

STTOOOOOOPID.

FF

PS: For Oklahomans Kansas is great. FOr Kansans its great. But for Plains Texas, NM, Arizona and Colorado it would be better for us if it were held in NM, AZ OR CO. There are more fencers in NM, AZ, CO, and Plains Texas and yes it would be cheaper for them to fly to either Denver, Albuquerque/SantaFe, or Phoenix than it would be to Buttchunks, Kansas. Now do you understand utilitarianism?

PPS: Inq, **** you. You know better. As long as you give your money too, as long as everyone contributes a LITTLE its still utilitarian. What's wrong with trying to help those in assleak Kansas get to a tournament when they really dont belong in our section to begin with? Cant get the USFA to change so maybe we can throw them a bone?

[Inquartata]

"Greatest good for the greatest number". It's your theory---well, actually it's probably Karl Marx's, but you have adopted it as the decision criterion here---so don't complain when it cuts both ways.

Maybe you need a brain cleanse in addition to your liver cleanse. There seem to be an awful lot of toxins streaming out of there recently.

[fatfencer]

"Greatest good for the greatest number". It's your theory---well, actually it's probably Karl Marx's, but you have adopted it as the decision criterion here---so don't complain when it cuts both ways.

Maybe you need a brain cleanse in addition to your liver cleanse. There seem to be an awful lot of toxins streaming out of there recently.

Glad I can be sof service to the greater community at large. and Ulitilitarianism isnt Communism. Besides its "From EACH to Each" Not from only ONE to EVERYONE.

Again you know this and just gliss on by...

Meanwhile it wasnt Marx. it was Bentham by the way of Mill Sr. and Junior.

Sigh....you should pay me for what you've learned about debate.

FF

PS: Of course there is toxin and venom. I am: the enemy of the stupid, the champion of the right-minded, bastion of hope that someday the stupid will become less so, 500million to-the-Googleplex candle-power cursing your intellectual darkness, wearer of the armor that is high IQ against you unwashed masses of low IQ, destroyer of the notion that not supporting the Jews is the same as hating them...and other Jew Fallacies, sworn enemy of political correctness, voice of all things true just because it hurts you, and all around great guy. I guess I'm just lil ol me. Fatfencer.

[Rockstar44]

Originally Posted by fatfencer
And yes, when last I checked it was cheaper to fly to Colorado than it was to fly to Kansas.

From where? Phoenix probably, Albuquerque maybe. From anywhere else in the section, no.

What you should be looking at is whether its cheaper for anyone in the section to fly to a major hub as opposed to Lawrence Kansas. The answer is YES. it will be cheaper.

No, the answer for most is that it will be cheaper to fly to Kansas City.

Moreover I'm convinced you are using bizarromaps.com The fact that you cannot grasp that Kansas is farther away for most than Colorado is is beyond obtuse.

Let's see, Denver to Phoenix - 910 miles. Denver to Lawrence - 559 miles.
Amarillo to Phoenix - 749 miles. Amarillo to Lawrence - 571 miles.
Albuquerque is closer to Phoenix, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's cheaper. If you take the population of the section as a whole, Lawrence is so much more centrally located than Phoenix that your inability to see it is beyond obtuse.

Moreover, had it been centrally located you would have had more people trying to qualify for Div 2 there than you will now that you've decided to hold it in Assleak, KS

It's more centrally located that Phoenix would have been. I see your confusion now, though. You don't know where the Sectionals are being held. They are going to be in Lawrence, Kansas, not Assleak (wherevever that is).

For Oklahomans Kansas is great. FOr Kansans its great.

Yes, for Oklahomans (since you mentioned them), Texans, Kansans, Coloradans, Nebraskans, South Dakotans, Wyomingites, and many of the New Mexicans, it's great. For Arizonoids and some of the New Mexicans it's a little inconvienient. That's 7 1/2 to 1 1/2. I am sure that you have some math skills. Figure it out.

...it would be cheaper for them to fly to either Denver, Albuquerque/SantaFe, or Phoenix than it would be to Buttchunks, Kansas.

No, it wouldn't. And, why would you want to fly to Buttchunks? The Sectionals are in Lawrence, not Buttchunks.

What's wrong with trying to help those in assleak Kansas get to a tournament when they really dont belong in our section to begin with?

I don't know where Assleak is, but if it's in Kansas, it's part of the Rocky Mountain Section (like Lawrence).

I am: the enemy of the stupid, the champion of the right-minded, bastion of hope that someday the stupid will become less so, 500million to-the-Googleplex candle-power cursing your intellectual darkness, wearer of the armor that is high IQ against you unwashed masses of low IQ....

At least I can find Kansas on a map.

....destroyer of the notion that not supporting the Jews is the same as hating them...and other Jew Fallacies, sworn enemy of political correctness, voice of all things true just because it hurts you, and all around great guy. I guess I'm just lil ol me.

Well, you've got me there. I was at the Sectional meeting last year, and we were planning on holding Sectionals in Phoenix this year, but those pesky Massad showed up and made us move it to Lawrence, well known for it's hotbed of militant Jewery. You have outed the conspiracy.

I salute you.

And, if you are going to respond to this post, please do so before chugging that twelve pack of Bud.

Sincerely,
Your Friend,
Rockstar44

[fatfencer]

I think your boyfriends pole is damaging your brain during all that hard lovin.

Southwest Airlines:
Assumptions. May 1 arrival earliest flight so you can see whats in Assleak(Lawrence) KS... and leaving on Sunday the 3rd so you can fence every possible event. By the way. Leaving Kansas usually occasions a 2-4pm flight which means your event may NOT be over and thus you have to stay an extra day. I cant calculate that readily but even you, when you check will realize thats a possibility for some. Not so for Phx. Most Sunday flights end at 9pm

ABQ to Assleak(Kansas City/Lawrence)=$251.60
ABQ to Phoenix, AZ $169.20
So since ABQ fields more fencers that Kansas AND is centrally located Kansas is a bad idea from their perspective, whether holding it in ABQ or Phoenix. So by being an ass Rockstar, you just sold out ABQ, forcing them to spend nearly $100.00 a head so you can have it in Tornadoville.

Denver to Assleak $169.20
Denver to Phoenix, $169.20
so its the same but of course they field the most fencers and really are the most central AND have a large Southwest Hub to boot. Since they are the most central they should field the tourney permanently. Saving the largest division a great some of travel money.

Amarillo to Assleak is cheaper by 8 bucks. Not really substantive is it compared to the savings for ABQ??? Selfish prick.


Wyoming has no data since Southwest doesnt service them.

Nebraska is forced into a 3 hour drive since Southwest doesnt originate flights from Lincoln. It's likely cheaper unless you rent a car or really just dont know how to get a deal

Kansas hardly fields any fencers to a sectionals event. And as they are hosting its cheaper for all 5 of you.....

However, for ABQ, Arizona, which fields more fencers to sectional events, hosting it in KS is more expensive. Moreover, when you count that Denver SHOULD hold it they would save their own planefare as well. Without counting them its a clear win for me. Counting them its a total landslide in my favor.

Go ahead, check my numbers with Southwest. Youll find Im not wrong.

Im sure if I was willing to take the time and Excel this I could show you. But it isnt worth the bother. Im right. The above is enough data to make a decision.

Bone yourself.

Fatfencer

PS: Ill be wanting that beer at SN's.

[Inquartata]

Please don't get aroused by the thought of paddling me. I am not really into spankings, unless it's by someone like Black Sunshine. IOW someone way more female than you. Don't get your hopes up, there.

its "From EACH to Each" Not from only ONE to EVERYONE.

It's "greatest good for the greatest number", as you originally stated it. Dont fall back on definitional retreat now. The greatest good for the greatest number would be best served by distributing all of your wealth amongst a greater number than 1, eg you. In fact, even if you drop the "greatest number", as some variants did, some might argue that it would STILL serve the greater good to impoverish you, since then you wouldn't be able to vex some of them by posting on fnet.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping that you stumble onto some herbal supplement which contains natural ego tranquilizers or something.

[fatfencer]

[QUOTE=Inquartata;789375]

Please don't get aroused by the thought of paddling me. I am not really into spankings, unless it's by someone like Jim Barbour. IOW someone way more transvestite than you.(He wears a kilt and that Jack Klugman hat....) Don't get your hopes up, there.

There I fixed it for ya.

It's "greatest good for the greatest number", as you originally stated it. Dont fall back on definitional retreat now. The greatest good for the greatest number would be best served by distributing all of your wealth amongst a greater number than 1, eg you. In fact, even if you drop the "greatest number", as some variants did, some might argue that it would STILL serve the greater good to impoverish you, since then you wouldn't be able to vex some of them by posting on fnet.

Retreat!!!! Oh its on now *****es!!! Fatfencer NEVER retreats!
There you go glissing again. You completely and conveniently miss the point that an even greater good would be do distribute YOUR wealth as well. If you bothered to read my last post you'd know that Kansas hosting COSTS ABQ and Santa FE fencers $100.00 per head roughly. Surely you could part with some of that wonderful cash the state pays ya? For the lousy 5 fencers Kansas usually fields when they have to travel elsewhere?

Maybe Rockstar finally understands basic math? Did you two go to the same school? The greatest good would be to distribute more wealth rather than less. Your wealth plus my wealth would be more than my wealth alone. Why do I have to keep paddling you with the obvious??????

Meanwhile, I'm hoping that you stumble onto some herbal supplement which contains natural ego tranquilizers or something.

With Sherriff Joe putting the New Times guys in jail on PETTY misdeameanors, dragging them out of their homes at 4am.... not likely. I'll stick to my new diet of fat free water.

Fatfencer

[Rockstar44]

I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore. Although I have to admit, it's been a lot of fun, the novelty of it has just been wearing thin. In my weakness, though, I just couldn't resist a couple of comments.

Kansas hardly fields any fencers to a sectionals event. And as they are hosting its cheaper for all 5 of you.....

Last year at the Sectionals in Boulder (centrally located), there were 16 Kansans and 16 Arizoniods.

Hey, wow! That's exactly the same number! Even you should be able to figure that one out.

As for your airline quotes, I don't doubt them. However, Kansas City is a major airline hub (much bigger than Phoenix) and is actually served by airlines other than Southwest.

So since ABQ fields more fencers that Kansas....

No, they don't. There are way more fencers in Kansas than there are in Albuquerque. You know this.

. So by being an ass Rockstar, you just sold out ABQ, forcing them to spend nearly $100.00 a head so you can have it in Tornadoville.

Yeah, you got me there. At the Sectional Meeting last year (attended by voting members from Arizona), everybody wanted to hold 2009 Sectionals in Phoenix, but I singlehandedly forced them all to say that they wanted them in Kansas. None of them really wanted to, but because I said so, they bowed to my demands.

Wyoming has no data since Southwest doesnt service them.

Nebraska is forced into a 3 hour drive since Southwest doesnt originate flights from Lincoln. It's likely cheaper unless you rent a car or really just dont know how to get a deal

Most of us from Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, and Nebraska (and a lot of us from New Mexico) will probably drive, anyway. Since Sectionals will be so close to us this year (ha ha), we will all save a lot of money because we don't have to fly.

Of course, this is all part of our insidiuous plan to make the Arizoniods pay more. That was our whole plan from the beginning.

However, for ABQ, Arizona, which fields more fencers to sectional events, hosting it in KS is more expensive.

Last year, centrally located in Boulder, Colorado. Arizona - 16. Kansas - 16. It's more expensive for 16 fencers from Arizona to go to Kansas than it is for 16 fencers from Kansas to go to Arizona?

Geographically speaking, the center of the Section lies somewhere between Denver and Colorado Springs. Personally, I would have no problem whatsoever with always holding them in Denver or Boulder. Unlike you, however, I am aware of the fact that there are fencers in Kansas and (yes) in Arizona that might want a break every few years. It's been nine years since Kansas hosted Sectionals. When did Arizona do them last?

And, yes, it's more expensive, but for whom? It's always more expensive for most of us when it's held outside of Boulder. Hey, if you can't afford to go, I feel for ya, buddy, but life is hard. Guess what? I can't afford to go either, but you don't hear me crying like a two year old.

Maybe Rockstar finally understands basic math? Did you two go to the same school? The greatest good would be to distribute more wealth rather than less. Your wealth plus my wealth would be more than my wealth alone.

What the heck does this have to do with where Sectionals might be held?

Or have you stopped reading posts in favor of just assuming all of them disagree with you?

I guess so....

I think your boyfriends pole is damaging your brain during all that hard lovin.

Bone yourself.

Fatfencer

Oh, well, I guess that settles it. It's hard to defend my position when you present such a rational, well thought out argument.

I'm tired of listening to your stupid rants.

Here are a couple of facts for you to digest.

The Sectionals ARE being held in Lawrence (not Assleak and not Buttchunks), Kansas.

NOBODY cares if you go or not.

Instead of being such a whiney two year old, suck it up like a man.

Don't go to Sectionals. Believe me, we won't miss you.

Sincerely,
Your Friend,
Rockstar44

[Rockstar44]

Ill be wanting that beer at SN's.

I am afraid that I am going to have to withdraw that offer. I think you've had enough....

[Rockstar44]

I'm not opposed to sectionals being anywhere...

FF

At the meeting this year I am going to recommend White Rock, South Dakota.

[fatfencer]

[QUOTE=Rockstar44;789453]

Last year at the Sectionals in Boulder (centrally located), there were 16 Kansans and 16 Arizoniods.

Hey, wow! That's exactly the same number! Even you should be able to figure that one out.

Hmm. Your math is misleading and pathetic. You should be comparing all the states, specifically, Arizona, NM, and Colorado. I think if you had the brains to do a 5 yr simple avg Kansas would come in dead last, not only from year to year but a combined whole.

As for your airline quotes, I don't doubt them. However, Kansas City is a major airline hub (much bigger than Phoenix) and is actually served by airlines other than Southwest.

So you dont doubt them How about you admit that they are completely true AND that they destroy your measly case?

No, they don't. There are way more fencers in Kansas than there are in Albuquerque. You know this.

In the last 6 years I only remember meeting 2 Kansans, maybe 3. One of whom is a coach at a mjor college on the East Coast. 2 of those 3 I met at sectionals. In 6 years. I've met countless from Colorado, Plains Texas, NM, etc. No one from South Dakota, Wyoming, or Nebraska. I'm sure that askFred, again 5 yr avg, would bear me out.

Yeah, you got me there. At the Sectional Meeting last year (attended by voting members from Arizona), everybody wanted to hold 2009 Sectionals in Phoenix, but I singlehandedly forced them all to say that they wanted them in Kansas. None of them really wanted to, but because I said so, they bowed to my demands.

You represent the evil of the Land of Oz. So its only natural that I blame you. You are their most vocal proponent.

Most of us from Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, and Nebraska (and a lot of us from New Mexico) will probably drive, anyway. Since Sectionals will be so close to us this year (ha ha), we will all save a lot of money because we don't have to fly.

I doubt it. Again, do the math. At two dollars a gallon for the cheap stuff you are likely to go over budget. Not to mention the fact that people would have to spend HOURS with you in the car.

Of course, this is all part of our insidiuous plan to make the Arizoniods pay more. That was our whole plan from the beginning.

YOu stiffed ABQ $100.00 per head roughly. Not to mention AZ and Colorado.

Geographically speaking, the center of the Section lies somewhere between Denver and Colorado Springs. Personally, I would have no problem whatsoever with always holding them in Denver or Boulder. Unlike you, however, I am aware of the fact that there are fencers in Kansas and (yes) in Arizona that might want a break every few years. It's been nine years since Kansas hosted Sectionals. When did Arizona do them last?

I too understand that they want a break. But Assleak Kansas? In tornado season? Surely they could have picked ABQ. Even Amarillo. I think Kansas is probably the only place WORSE than Amarillo. Wow if your a hot babe in Amarillo... you are VISITING!!!!

And, yes, it's more expensive, but for whom? It's always more expensive for most of us when it's held outside of Boulder.

Patently untrue. Moreover Kansas is CLEARLY more expensive than any alternative.

Hey, if you can't afford to go, I feel for ya, buddy, but life is hard. Guess what? I can't afford to go either, but you don't hear me crying like a two year old.

So you've argued this vociferously and youre a poor son of a ***** who cant or isnt going???? Wow you are a moroooon.
If it were more centrally located even YOU might be able to afford it. Can you trade in your foodstamps?

Oh, well, I guess that settles it. It's hard to defend my position when you present such a rational, well thought out argument.

IF you could have said this earlier, perhaps in January when I made my first comment on the thread.....I'd have personally sponsored you for Mensa. Sadly...Down's Syndrome Alliance seems more apropos.

Here are a couple of facts for you to digest.

The Sectionals ARE being held in Lawrence (not Assleak and not Buttchunks), Kansas.

NOBODY cares if you go or not.

Instead of being such a whiney two year old, suck it up like a man.

Don't go to Sectionals. Believe me, we won't miss you.

SO. My wife has this gay friend who's throwing a Wizard of Oz party somewhere in metro Phoenix. Chances are its much the same as going to Sectionals this year...without the airfare. Too bad most of the section cant join me this year as theyre stuck(though it would be cheaper)going to Assleak, KS. Not only is there nothing to do there... BUT as your fellow metrosexuals well know:

Fags throw a great shindig AND the drinks are awesome. I'm sure one of them has cassettes of Toto and Kansas.

Fatfencer

PS: When I'm publicly proven to have lost a bet. At least I man up and pay.

[fatfencer]

At the meeting this year I am going to recommend White Rock, South Dakota.

Are you one of them newfangled "teabaggees" I keep hearing about? Or is it just 'teabags'?

FF

PS: RMS doesnt have SouthDakota listed in the section.....

[Jay Young]

Is it possible to TAKE rep away?

[fatfencer]

Is it possible to TAKE rep away?

But you have so little....

do you have rep envy?

LOL

Fatfencer

[Jay Young]

Perhaps...

But it says I have much to be proud of!! (Such a Motherly comment...)

[Inquartata]

You completely and conveniently miss the point that an even greater good would be do distribute YOUR wealth as well.

Perilously close to tu quoque.

See, I am not the one advocating "the greatest good for the greatest number". YOU are. It's not incumbent upon me to put my money where your mouth is ( so to speak ).

Kansas City is a major airline hub (much bigger than Phoenix) and is actually served by airlines other than Southwest.

Dubious.

Phoenix was, as of 2007, the 5th largest city in the US. KC was 168th. Wikipedia's list of the top 15 hubs includes Phoenix but not KC. Phx is also a US Airways hub, and is "served" by a large number of major airlines.

Your point doesn't need that angle to validate it.

It's been nine years since Kansas hosted Sectionals. When did Arizona do them last?

3 years ago, I think. Before that the only one I can remember was back in the early or mid-1990s sometime.

Equal opportunity fact-checking.