Sectionals 2009

[Rockstar44]

A screen print below from AskFred

Despite the fact that sectionals is only 45 days away roughly, the registration below is more than a little light.

FF



2009 Rocky Mountain Sectionals May 2, 2009 - May 3, 2009

University of Kansas Robinson Gymnasium Rm 215: Lawrence, KS
Preregister
More Info
Email the Organizer
Download Waiver
Map to 1301 Sunnyside Ave. Lawrence KS 66045
Discuss this tournament at Fencing.net




Tip: click the column headers to sort by ratings, club, etc.
Junior (U19) Women's Epee Sat 5/02 1:00 PM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Prosseda, Olivia FRFC
Front Range Fencing B2008
Junior (U19) Women's Foil Sun 5/03 11:30 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Ward, Haley SDFA / DF
South Denver Fencing Academy / Denver Fencing Center C2008
Junior (U19) Women's Saber Sat 5/02 9:15 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Ward, Haley SDFA / DF
South Denver Fencing Academy / Denver Fencing Center U
Junior (U19) Men's Epee Sat 5/02 8:45 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Blyth, Jourdain SDFA
South Denver Fencing Academy B2009
Jones, Simon NCF
Northern Colorado Fencers B2009
Klinitski, Taylor FRFC
Front Range Fencing D2007
Oliver, Kieran NCF
Northern Colorado Fencers E2008
Junior (U19) Men's Foil Sun 5/03 11:30 AM
1 Fencers: 1B, could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Bauman, Jeremy ACFA
Amarillo College Fencing Association B2007
Incomplete:
Oliver, Kieran NCF
Northern Colorado Fencers U
Junior (U19) Men's Saber Sat 5/02 1:00 PM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Bowman, Connor FACKC
Fencing Athletic Club of Kansas City C2008
Senior Women's Epee Sun 5/03 8:30 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Clements, Julie DTFC
Double T Fencing Club D2005
Prosseda, Olivia FRFC
Front Range Fencing B2008
Senior Women's Foil Sat 5/02 8:45 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Nolen, Graciela FCAZ / ASU
Fencers Club of Arizona / Arizona State University D2008
Ward, Haley SDFA / DF
South Denver Fencing Academy / Denver Fencing Center C2008
Senior Women's Saber Sat 5/02 1:30 PM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Nolen, Graciela FCAZ / ASU
Fencers Club of Arizona / Arizona State University C2009
Ward, Haley SDFA / DF
South Denver Fencing Academy / Denver Fencing Center U
Senior Men's Epee Sun 5/03 8:30 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Blyth, Jourdain SDFA
South Denver Fencing Academy B2009
Jones, Simon NCF
Northern Colorado Fencers B2009
Klinitski, Taylor FRFC
Front Range Fencing D2007
Oliver, Kieran NCF
Northern Colorado Fencers E2008
Smith, Everett KCFC
Kansas City Fencing Center A2008
Senior Men's Foil Sat 5/02 12:00 PM
1 Fencers: 1B, could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Bauman, Jeremy ACFA
Amarillo College Fencing Association B2007
Incomplete:
Oliver, Kieran NCF
Northern Colorado Fencers U
Senior Men's Saber Sat 5/02 9:00 AM
0 Fencers: could be a NR event.
(Depending on who shows and where they place. See USFA chart for details.)
Fencer Club Rating
Incomplete:
Becker III, Will FCAZ / ASU
Fencers Club of Arizona / Arizona State University C2008
Jump to:
Junior (U19) Women's Epee
Junior (U19) Women's Foil
Junior (U19) Women's Saber
Junior (U19) Men's Epee
Junior (U19) Men's Foil
Junior (U19) Men's Saber
Senior Women's Epee
Senior Women's Foil
Senior Women's Saber
Senior Men's Epee
Senior Men's Foil
Senior Men's Saber

Wow! I think a link would have been sufficient....

[fatfencer]

Wow! I think a link would have been sufficient....

Yeah... but I wanted all and sundry to really realize that no one is going...

FF

[Mr Epee]

Yeah... but I wanted all and sundry to really realize that no one is going...

FF

It's a little disingenuous to criticize total entries only a week after the event is posted on AskFred, and a month before the online registration deadline. You know this, so let’s move on to more useful discussion.

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least a dozen quality A/B Men's Epeeists who will be attending, but are not currently on the registration list. At this stage, I am positive that the numbers will shape up over the next few weeks.

It probably doesn’t help, but I have many fond memories from a 20+hr road trip with my coach and teammates to Phoenix, Arizona for the RMSC back in the mid-1990’s. It’s all part of the bag you’re handed, when you’re lucky enough to be fencing in the RMS.

That said, there's certainly plenty to criticize about this situation.

Of course, the location is not ideal for fencers traveling from the Western divisions in the section, but access difficulties are nothing new for the RMS - the USFA's largest section by geographic area. Even holding the event in a central location (like Boulder) means fencers, coaches, referees, and organizers are faced with deciding between 8-10hr drives, or flying.

The shear geographic size of the RMS is makes the development of an event like the RMSC extremely difficult. Very clever, very experienced people have attempted to find an equitable solution, but to no avail. It will always be a decision of lesser evils. As I understand it, the current selection process involves a four year rotation system.

• Year 1: Somewhere in the Western Divisions
• Year 2: Colorado (Approximately Central)
• Year 3: Somewhere in the Eastern Divisions
• Year 4: Colorado (Approximately Central)

Today's grassroots and intermediate fencers represent the future of the sport, and these fencers, in many ways, have the most to gain from participating in events like a Sectional Championships. Any coach worth their salt can tell you that the more chances a fencer participates in a particular type of event, the more comfortable they become, and the greater their chance of future success. This is, traditionally, how athletes are integrated into the sport. However, it remains highly unlikely that athletes - or more importantly their financiers (read: parents) - will pull the trigger on high travel costs for "the sake of experience”. As a result, we are left with is a situation where, for all practical purposes, the only reason fencers can justify traveling to the Sectional Championships is if they live in close proximity to the event, or believe they have a significant chance of qualifying for the National Championships.

Quite frankly, from a geographical and driving standpoint, it makes very little sense to lump the fencing clubs in Lincoln, Omaha, South Dakota (anyone?), Kansas City Metro, and Wichita into a section with Colorado. There’s an approximately 6-10hr dead zone between those clubs and the nearest ones in Colorado. From experience, I can assure everyone that driving across the prairie isn’t the fun sort of driving. I am much less familiar with driving across the dessert, but I’m sure it’s not much better.
Sectional Championships used to be the only qualifying path to the National Championships, and there were certain bragging rights associated with being the best fencer from your section. Today, there is a significant disconnect between sectional championship events, and elite fencing. The distance/cost of travel means that in places like the RMS sectional championship events aren’t really for lower level fencers either. In world dominated by Wal-Mart (focus on cost), and Target (cultivating stylized image) the RMSC is the equivalent of K-Mart. K-Mart couldn’t quite compete with Wal-Mart on cost, and failed to compete with Target on style. As a result they ended up caught in the middle, and were deservingly squeezed out of competitive markets.

The simple answer is either redistricting, or exploring alternate qualifying paths. I don’t know why, but for whatever reason, redistricting seems to be a non-starter with the USFA. Mostly, I suspect that people don’t want to engage the by-law redrafting process. Who knows what worm-cans might be drug into the open, if that process were started? Political capital in the USFA's administrators is not particularly high, at the moment. As administrative units, the sections don’t serve any meaningful role that couldn’t easily be centralized. Without question, changes to the qualifying paths over the past decade have already dramatically decreased the importance of Sectional Championships. With a little thought it might be possible to remove them altogether.

Ok, now the good part.

Lawrence, KS, home of the University of Kansas, is a fabulous place to visit. It’s surprisingly easy to get there, and there should be plenty of affordable lodging within a reasonable distance. Folks lucky enough to visit will discover a charming college town, an excellent selection of restaurants, and some nifty troughs for the purpose of beak-wetting. I, personally, recommend the Free State Brewery, but that's just me.

[fatfencer]

How many people fence in Kansas?

I suspect my division is larger than most except for say Colorado.

Kansas is just so far out that its beyond reason. I do seriously want them to hold RMSC SOMEDAY, but not perhaps this year when people are really short travel funds.

Not to mention going to the heart of Tornado Alley during high season just doesnt make me happy to fly there, be there, etc.

Its of course disingenuous and hyperbolic to suggest that NO ONE is going. That's just my sense of humor at work. Those that need to go, will go, but it will be the smallest RMSC in some time. Does Kansas HAVE any Rocky Mountains in it?

So the Kansas fencers may save on travel this time, but their division is going to take it in the shorts. I make an assumption that each division pays for it themselves the year they hold it.

Too late now... but it wasn't when I suggested there was a problem.

FF

[Rockstar44]

How many people fence in Kansas?

I suspect my division is larger than most except for say Colorado.

Likely so, but they are a Division, and as such should occasionally have the opportunity to host Sectionals (just like, oh, say Arizona, for example).

Kansas is just so far out that its beyond reason.

For whom, and in relation to what? Hard as it apparently is for you to believe, there are fencers who will find travelling to Kansas more appealing than to, oh, say, Arizona (for example).

I do seriously want them to hold RMSC SOMEDAY...

Based on this and your previous posts, I don't believe this statement for a second.

...but not perhaps this year when people are really short travel funds.

People are really short of travel funds every year. They just have to set their priorities.

Not to mention going to the heart of Tornado Alley during high season just doesnt make me happy to fly there, be there, etc.

Then, by all means, don't go. We all want you to be happy! Isn't that what the rest of us are here for? To make you happy?

Its of course disingenuous and hyperbolic to suggest that NO ONE is going.

Really. No kidding?

Those that need to go, will go, but it will be the smallest RMSC in some time. Does Kansas HAVE any Rocky Mountains in it?

Priorities. How important will it be for any fencer to go (just like it would be if Sectionals were held, say, in Arizona, for example)? And, no, I don't think that there are any Rocky Mountains in Kansas. What, you can't fence except in the Rocky Mountains?

So the Kansas fencers may save on travel this time...

As opposed to, say, someone from, oh, Arizona maybe?

...but their division is going to take it in the shorts. I make an assumption that each division pays for it themselves the year they hold it.

Maybe, maybe not. Sectionals are not exactly a moneymaker, even if they were to be held in, oh, say, perhaps Arizona? And, as I understand it, Section pays for it.

Too late now... but it wasn't when I suggested there was a problem.

Too late for what? Too late to change it to, hmmm, maybe Arizona? As far as I can tell, the only problem you have with Sectionals this year is that everything is not being done to accomodate Fat Fencer.

Just for the record, I am not part of the Kansas Division.

What is it with you and Kansas? Have you even ever been there?

[fatfencer]

[QUOTE=Rockstar44;783610]

Likely so, but they are a Division, and as such should occasionally have the opportunity to host Sectionals (just like, oh, say Arizona, for example).

No arguments here. They should hold a tourney someday.

For whom, and in relation to what? Hard as it apparently is for you to believe, there are fencers who will find travelling to Kansas more appealing than to, oh, say, Arizona (for example).

Not based on distance and cost they wont. Furthermore there really isnt a lot of fencers from Kansas; that we all have to pay more money and travel farther is a bit of a bugger. Certainly Colorado or NM would have been cheaper for me.

Based on this and your previous posts, I don't believe this statement for a second.

I can't make you believe me. Don't care to really. If concepts like the 'greatest good for the greatest number don't ring true to you in cases like these then perhaps your education has failed you?

People are really short of travel funds every year. They just have to set their priorities

.
This year ISNT worse??? Surely you jest. Last I checked this is the greaest economic fiasco since the Depression.

Then, by all means, don't go. We all want you to be happy! Isn't that what the rest of us are here for? To make you happy?

Yes, well, it should be. I think you'll find that if you make me happy in any argument you'll at least have the pleasure of being correct.

Really. No kidding?

No kidding.

Too late for what? Too late to change it to, hmmm, maybe Arizona? As far as I can tell, the only problem you have with Sectionals this year is that everything is not being done to accomodate Fat Fencer.

I just wanted it more centrally located for the greatest number of fencers in the section. If that's accomodating ME then fine. I'm a selfish prick.

What is it with you and Kansas? Have you even ever been there?

If you'd bothered to read the OP you'd know my beef with Kansas. That its too far out and too expensive; those two facts hurt a larger number of people when its held in Kansas. Why can you not see this?

Fatfencer

[Rockstar44]

I'm a selfish prick. Fatfencer

You said it.

[physicspackage]

How many people fence in Kansas?

I suspect my division is larger than most except for say Colorado.

Kansas: 175
Arizona: 215
Colorado: 383

Does Kansas HAVE any Rocky Mountains in it?

Yes

[Jay Young]

Very poetic, nice...

[Inquartata]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone sum up the population of Arizona so nicely.

What, all of it? Or just the fat fencing segment?

Really, we need more terminological precision around here.

[SabreReedfrost]

I think that the meaning is somewhat unspoken, Inq. However, in line with your

terminological precision

I meant all of it.

[Inquartata]

Wow...so you've met the entire "population of Arizona"?

When do you find time to fence?

[Rockstar44]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone sum up the population of Arizona so nicely.

I think that's pretty unfair. I have been to Arizona lots, and have found it to be full of some really great people. Like anywhere, you will always have some who never matured beyond the age of two (not naming any names, FF), but it remains one of my favorite places. Like Kansas.

And, there are FFs in Kansas, too. Don't be one of them.

[fatfencer]

You know....

Some people, no matter how nicely one couches something, will say that he is not only incorrect about the matter but was, moreover, an ass about it.

Tough ****.

This is going to be a woefully underpopulated tournament. Sadly, I will likely be correct about this.

Summer Nationals is not likely to have a banner year either, although it at least is going to be fun.

FF

PS: NO!!!! There is only ONE FF. Any more and the Mayan Doomsday proclamation will accelerate to some unknown date PRIOR to Sectionals. There are large penalties to messing with anything so....cosmic.

[SabreReedfrost]

Actually, I was born in Pheonix. I lived there for quite a while.

[Inquartata]

I call non sequitur.

And also misspelling of "Phoenix". ( Just trying to live down to your low opinion. )

[SabreReedfrost]

Thanks for pointing that out... I constantly misspell that city... *Drives PhOEnix nail into brain*

[Rockstar44]

Just in case you might return to this thread, I still haven't gotten an answer from you about one thing.

Have you ever even been to Kansas?

[fatfencer]

Just in case you might return to this thread, I still haven't gotten an answer from you about one thing.

Have you ever even been to Kansas?

once...ages ago for a debate camp at UoK

It was alright. I still love college campuses.

FF

PS: Im not in any rush to go back to the Midwest. Weather kinda bites ass. Summers are Mosquito ridden. Late spring and summer is tornado season. Winter totally, irredeemably blows.

[Rockstar44]

once...ages ago for a debate camp at UoK

Well, they have running water and indoor bathrooms now.