11-12-2008, 11:13 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 125
| Footwork length
. Do any of you teach foot work of diffrent sizes. By that I mean lunges that are short or long. Advances of diffrent lengths; retreats that are half, long, small ect.Or even the fleche at various sizes. I hadn't really thought about this until I heard a Russian coach say that the vocablary of foot work actions is too small to describe the number of foot actions that are used in fencing and that all steps need not be of a standard size. What are your thoughts? | 
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11-12-2008, 11:34 AM
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#2 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
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| How can one not?
Varying the size (and speed, for that matter) of steps of all types is key to controlling the distance in the bout. It's a skill that fencers absolutely need to have. Therefore it's something to which we, as coaches, ought to pay attention.
-B
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11-12-2008, 12:47 PM
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#3 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,517
| Considering that the vocabulary of footwork is something like six phrases ("advance", "retreat"....) the coach had the right of it.
Everyone should teach footwork of different sizes and speeds and types, based on the distance to the opponent, the tactical considerations, and the intention of the next step after the one you just took.
No offense BD, but this is an absolutely important concept that you should integrate in with your instruction....like....yesterday.
AE | |
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11-12-2008, 12:49 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 496
| Interesting question. Most coaches I have received footwork training from emphasize variance in footwork tempo but seemed to prefer small steps.
I was speaking to someone who was a a training camp with Vezzali's coach and the Italian put major emphasis on variation in step size. | |
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11-12-2008, 01:09 PM
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#5 | | Fencing Expert
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| Often, in manuevering, the steps are small, just big enough to make a difference in distance/tempo, but varying in speed to look for the opportunity to exploit the opponent. Once the opponents distance/tempo has been broken, attacking steps can often be larger and faster, if the attack is over a short distance (a lunge, after all, is often nothing more than a "larger" and faster advance wit hthe back foot in place). If the attack is a marching attack, the steps may vary in size to keep an optimal distance between the two fencers, with the final "attacking" step large and fast.
This, of course, is very general, and there are exceptions, depending on what both fencers intent is, and the weapon involved.
AE | |
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11-12-2008, 01:31 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 125
| None taken Allen, It was like an ah ha moment. The level of relaxtion in foot work was amazing to me. It seemed so natural The possiblities seemed endless for my older students and it solved the foot dragging problem I was having with my newer students It was one of things where one wonders if "it's just me". Oh the Russian coach was Nazlymov. | |
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11-12-2008, 02:33 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by big daddy  Oh the Russian coach was Nazlymov. | Really, doing anything Vladimir says is generally an excellent idea.
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11-12-2008, 03:15 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Carstairs, AB, Canada
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| Nothing more to say here except:
Yup.
James.
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11-12-2008, 05:45 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,150
| Quote:
Originally Posted by epeeslasher
Some beautiful footwork in there.
| Even those forward cross-overs.
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11-13-2008, 02:57 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nantes, France
Posts: 763
| The fact that varying length in footwork is necessary doesn't mean that this is easy to teach. I think the concept is probably the most important reason for giving individual lessons, actually. I mean, you must teach groups of people not to make their steps too big before you hit them with other modalities (slow/fast; long/short). Last week I attended a training session where I saw a demonstration of collective footwork given by Maître Coicaud of Pau wherein he banged every sort of variation out of a group of semiexperienced youth fencers. It was absolutely sabre footwork but it taught a lot of cool stuff (retreats as preparation?!). I'm certainly looking to sabre for ideas about footwork now. Which just means that I've largely ignored it before.
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11-13-2008, 08:37 AM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 125
| Yes I did . The video started me to thinking about how that concept might be applied.I also noticed the size of the steps in high level bouts. | |
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11-13-2008, 09:21 AM
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#13 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Durando Last week I attended a training session where I saw a demonstration of collective footwork given by Maître Coicaud of Pau wherein he banged every sort of variation out of a group of semiexperienced youth fencers. | Do you have shareable notes?
Even granted the difficulties in translating from visual/audio to written media, I'd be interested to read about what was demonstrated.
-B
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11-13-2008, 12:54 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Nantes, France
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by oiuyt Do you have shareable notes?
Even granted the difficulties in translating from visual/audio to written media, I'd be interested to read about what was demonstrated.
-B | I will presently. Will post.
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11-13-2008, 01:40 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Redwood City, Califoria
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| Time for my dumb noob question of the day. 
What is the footwork action he is doing at :26 seconds in? He essentially does a very short lunge, followed by a second kick with the front foot without moving the back foot. I haven't seen this before. Is there a separate name for this action?
The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know...
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11-13-2008, 01:49 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,150
| Quote:
Originally Posted by catwood1 Time for my dumb noob question of the day.
What is the footwork action he is doing at :26 seconds in? He essentially does a very short lunge, followed by a second kick with the front foot without moving the back foot. I haven't seen this before. Is there a separate name for this action?
The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know... | You could call it a forward appel followed by a lunge, or a banana. Take your pick.
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11-13-2008, 01:50 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Carstairs, AB, Canada
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| It's called an appel.
Classically, it's used for two reasons:
1) To introduce a break in the footwork rhythm.
2) With sound, it's used to "freeze" the opponent in place.
...though in the demo guy it seems to be a habit, rather then a deliberate action.
James.
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11-13-2008, 01:56 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
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| Ah ok, I've seen/used appels before, but I hadn't seen them used as a partial step forward, instead I've only seen it done in place.
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"Sir, didn't I parry"
"You didn't take advantage of his blade enough, so no."
(I guess i should have romanced it a bit more..."
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11-13-2008, 01:58 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,150
| Quote:
Originally Posted by catwood1 Ah ok, I've seen/used appels before, but I hadn't seen them used as a partial step forward, instead I've only seen it done in place. | You can do an appel in place, backwards or forwards - but not after a cartwheel as that would be an abnormal fencing action.
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11-13-2008, 02:02 PM
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#20 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,517
| At the time the tape was made, almost all Russian footwork seemed to start with an appel or balestra.
Coaches at this time were also teaching fencers to start a slow lunge, and "appel" in the middle of the lunge, to accelerate the footwork. I occasionally saw it taught as part of a feint/cut combnation.
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