Both Bayonet and Two-Pin Sockets on a Sabre

[InfernoXV]

Hi chaps!

A friend of mine showed me a sabre he's had from some time back while fencing as an undergrad in London, and he had both the two-pin socket and the bayonet socket connectors on the sabre. One of the two was a normal detachable socket, while the other (I forget which) was welded to the inside of the guard. This enabled him to use either bodywire, and seems an awfully useful setup.

Someone just gave me an LP Bayonet bodywire and socket, so I'm awfully tempted to add the LP Bayonet socket to the two-pin socket on my sabre, with both sort of contacting the blade tang right behind the guard, angled such that the two are side by side. That shouldn't cause any problems, since the electrical setup's so simple and straightforward.... right?

[DHCJr]

Technically there is little wrong with this. Let us look at part of M.24.

Inside the guard there must be a socket into which the bodycord is
plugged, whatever system is used.

The two sockets of the bodycord plug must be in direct contact with
the body of the guard, making a closed electrical circuit through the
bodycord, the reel and the cable connecting the reel to the scoring
apparatus.

The resistance in the weapon must not exceed 1 ohm.

The interior of the guard must be completely insulated by means of
insulating paint or a pad.

In the 1st paragraph it says a socket.

In the 4th paragraph it says inside the guard must be completely insulated. I have seen weapons failed for the steel ring on leather handles. When the body cord is put in it covers the part of the socket not covered by the pad. It is a disadvantage to have bare metal on the inside of the guard. I don't think Armorers are there to protect the fencer from themselves only from their opponent.

But if you look at the last 4 years, the head of SEMI is for nothing that he has not seen before and nothing new, unless it is pushed by the President of the FIE.

Look at some of the things that were legal according to the rules that were outlawed.

Screwless Tips, Zip Tips, BG's Universal Body Cord.

The last two both manufacturers went to Dan DeChaine first to make sure there were no problems before they went into production. The first time Dos Santos saw them they became illegal.

You will probably have someone who has never seen that before and will automatically rule it illegal, because they don't understand what you have done.

If you are prepared for that, then I would go with it.

[rudd]

This enabled him to use either bodywire, and seems an awfully useful setup.

I can't quiet grasp how this would be useful. It would be far better to decide on a single socket system and have spare bodywires. Obviously this would give you the novelty factor.

If you now have a spare bayonet bodywire just replace the bayonet with a two pin and voila, you now have two bodywires that work with you current setup.

[fencerbill]

I think even DHCJr hints that you won't have a problem until you get to international competition, so go for it.

My guess is that your friend has traditionally used bayonets but then wound up with a Sabre guard with a permanent 2 pin socket.

It does make it easier to borrow body cords.

[oiuyt]

My guess is that your friend has traditionally used bayonets but then wound up with a Sabre guard with a permanent 2 pin socket.

Or modified a capteur socket.

Or thinks the capteur socket is what a bayonet socket looks like and hasn't noticed that a bayonet bodycord wouldn't fit.

-B

[Purple Fencer]

Or modified a capteur socket.

Or thinks the capteur socket is what a bayonet socket looks like and hasn't noticed that a bayonet bodycord wouldn't fit.

-B

That's a good point.....for the OP....was the bayo socket in line with the grip (about 90 degrees from the 2 pin)....and did it look like a coax connection??

[InfernoXV]

That's a good point.....for the OP....was the bayo socket in line with the grip (about 90 degrees from the 2 pin)....and did it look like a coax connection??

It just occured to me that the two-pin socket was the one at the normal place for a socket, on that longish strip that most socket connectors have. The bayonet socket was affixed to the guard directly (a wee cuboid sticking out of the inside of the guard), roughly 45° from the two-pin (taking the grip and two-pin position as the vertical), perhaps a centimeter away from the edge of the guard. It didn't look like any of the coaxial connections I've seen on audio-visual equipment though.

[Purple Fencer]

It just occured to me that the two-pin socket was the one at the normal place for a socket, on that longish strip that most socket connectors have. The bayonet socket was affixed to the guard directly (a wee cuboid sticking out of the inside of the guard), roughly 45° from the two-pin (taking the grip and two-pin position as the vertical), perhaps a centimeter away from the edge of the guard. It didn't look like any of the coaxial connections I've seen on audio-visual equipment though.

That sounds like a field modification, not someone who had a capteur on there initially.

[InfernoXV]

Field modification? Goodness. Such a MacGyver-like tone to that!

Can anyone show me what a capteur looks like?

So, bringing the thread back, and usefulness aside, it doesn't seem to be a problem having both sockets on a single sabre, yes? Would this still be perfectly functional?

[SJCFU#2]

Can anyone show me what a capteur looks like?

You can see a picture of a capteur on Uhlmann's web site (click here). The upper end is a BNC male plug, so the socket, naturally enough is a BNC female socket (click here). The socket would be mounted to a bracket attached to the inside of the guard, with the wire of the BNC socket connecting to the B line of the body cord socket (the insulated jack on a two-prong or the screw of a LP bayonet socket). The cateur was intended to serve as a switch, sort of like the point of an electric foil, in order to ensure that touches landed with a certain amount of force. Unfortunately they didn't work very well and so after a few years (and a lot of tinkering by the FIE) they were abandoned in favor of a simple B-C short.

So, bringing the thread back, and usefulness aside, it doesn't seem to be a problem having both sockets on a single sabre, yes? Would this still be perfectly functional?

Provided everything was done properly (B and C are shorted together and the bracket is electrically connected to the blade) then it would be perfectly functional. There would be a slight increase in weight however most sabers are well below the maximum allowable weight to begin with and since the additional weight would be close to the center of rotation I doubt it would significantly affect rotational inertia of the weapon, so it probably wouldn't impact blade speed all that much.

As an aside, Uhlmann also sells a saber guard with an integral two-prong socket. However I believe that the socket is mounted in exactly the same location as a conventional socket. The only instances where I've seen body cord sockets attached to the guard anywhere other than around the tang were on traditional Italian guards.

[fencerbill]

The capteur socket was usually mounted on a small L-shaped bracket about halfway between the 2 holes in the guard that the blade goes through. About midway between the sides of the guard. It would be just about opposite your ring finger or pinkie if you hold the Sabre with your thumb against the guard.