For International Fencer Parents (USFA)

[DHCJr]

Right now there is a lawsuit going on over the exclusive use of the USFA National Colors.

This is important to any fencer competing Internationally.

What it entails is about the USFA giving exclusive rights for all of it's logos.

Most of this would not affect the fencers.

If this is applied to the National Colors, it would affect the fencers badly.

If a fencer gets to a FIE tournament and for whatever reason needs to buy new breaches, they could not 'legally' have the colors put on except by the holder of the exclusive rights.

Even if they could overnight a patch (at your expense) that may not be fast enough. Suppose you need it that day or it is a weekend. Will they be available 24/7?

If you are a parent or a fencer you should contact the USFA and tell them they have a responsibility not to give exclusive rights to the National Colors.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Donald:

While I tend to agree with you that a logo like the USA Star emblem required for international fencing probably should belong to the USFA, and not a private contractor, I'm not sure it really affects the situation you describe.

I don't recall seeing any vendors at the various international meets who would have had a USA logo to put on a new pair of knickers. So, if you end up in Budapest, and United decides to send your knickers to Bratislava, you have a bigger problem than whether Marx Enterprises or ProPrintWear "owns" the emblem rights.

[DHCJr]

I don't recall seeing any vendors at the various international meets who would have had a USA logo to put on a new pair of knickers. So, if you end up in Budapest, and United decides to send your knickers to Bratislava, you have a bigger problem than whether Marx Enterprises or ProPrintWear "owns" the emblem rights.

You didn't ask!

Every one of the vendors probably had it.

All they would need to do it go to the FIE web site, download the files for every National Color and load it into their machine.

http://www.fie.ch/download/homepage/...enues%20FN.pdf

I could go to my local sports store, bring them the logo and have it done there. It is not like lame' where you have to worry about conductivity.

This document is not even copyrighted. It is there not only for control to know, but for the vendors so they can use it.

[Old Fencer]

Anyone can what if a situation to death, but we thought of such an emergency. We had sewn emergency rectangular swatches bearing the International Colors for such an occasion. They were to be carried by the USFA Staff Representative in attendance. This was an issue given great consideration as we wished to ease the tension of the athlete and parents. We even suggest that when purchasing a new uniform that the customer swatch the International Colors and/or Name and Country for such an emergency and carry them in their carryon luggage.
If you wish to take the approach of identical then there would be no greater argument for having a single vendor charged with the application. The FIE could go to pantone matching of ink colors and pattern size, but who really wants to what if this any longer. I’ve enjoyed the exchange and it is food for thought.
With regard to allowing any vendor or store merchant to apply the International Logo I would strongly recommend against allowing someone who does not understand the process with respect to the various fabric materials used to construct knickers and/or jackets to stencil or embroider my equipment. Screen Printing requires an extreme heat source and can easily melt and/or damage the garment. I have seen many a botched print where the fabric has melted beyond repair.
Furthermore, the suggestion that the USFA should not contract exclusive rights to their International Logo is a little short sighted. The USFA would stand to receive approximately 20% of the sales revenue from each sale, which in turn would return to the fencing community. As demonstrated above, with a little foresight and preparation even a scary midnight Halloween story can have a happy ending.
Copyright laws can be tricky for the customer and legally trained. Do not assume that an item does not have copyright protection(s) simply because it does not have a copyright mark.

[DHCJr]

Anyone can what if a situation to death, but we thought of such an emergency. We had sewn emergency rectangular swatches bearing the International Colors for such an occasion. They were to be carried by the USFA Staff Representative in attendance. This was an issue given great consideration as we wished to ease the tension of the athlete and parents. We even suggest that when purchasing a new uniform that the customer swatch the International Colors and/or Name and Country for such an emergency and carry them in their carryon luggage.

Yes they do carry some. But have they ever carried 60. At a Jr. World there was a need for that many besides the ones the USFA cadre carried.

With regard to allowing any vendor or store merchant to apply the International Logo I would strongly recommend against allowing someone who does not understand the process with respect to the various fabric materials used to construct knickers and/or jackets to stencil or embroider my equipment. Screen Printing requires an extreme heat source and can easily melt and/or damage the garment. I have seen many a botched print where the fabric has melted beyond repair.
Furthermore, the suggestion that the USFA should not contract exclusive rights to their International Logo is a little short sighted. The USFA would stand to receive approximately 20% of the sales revenue from each sale, which in turn would return to the fencing community. As demonstrated above, with a little foresight and preparation even a scary midnight Halloween story can have a happy ending.
Copyright laws can be tricky for the customer and legally trained. Do not assume that an item does not have copyright protection(s) simply because it does not have a copyright mark.

These were vendors who knew how to do logos for fencing as they were fencing vendors. If they hadn't got one of the vendors at the Jr. Worlds to make up some patches the whole cadet team would have been told, I'm sorry you came all this way for nothing. This may have also affected 2 of the Jr. Teams.

They found out Saturday afternoon (Sunday morning our time). So the first they could have gotten in touch with you would have been Monday morning. Overnight would have made it Tuesday morning. The first two Jr. Teams would be turning in their equipment for control Tuesday morning.

Should the USFA have told the cadets, I'm sorry we're sending you home without getting a chance to fence?

I don't mind and in fact I applaud the exclusive contract of the rest of the USFA symbols and logos.

[Old Fencer]

We embroidered hundreds having had cloth swatches cut, squared off, sewn and then embroidered. This required numerous in shop hours for production with little if any expectation of profit. It was a service to our customers and the organization we were contracted with, not a contractual obligation. That is one of the many differences in having a business owned and operated by an athlete and referee from the community they serve.

The expectation that you can travel anywhere in the world and have immediate access to a unique need is less than reasonable. Preparation is the key to success in business and athletics. The durability of embroidery over stenciling is not in question. The embroidery thread we apply will outlast the life of your uniform with proper washing. The FIE has enforced the fade rule and this would be one less worry. Again, we suggest that when purchasing a new uniform that you have the International Colors and/or Name and Country cut from the garments and swatched for travel emergencies. This would allow for; if necessary, the athlete to hand sew the swatch onto the uniform or seek a local tailor.

The notion that Proprintwear would deny an athlete the ability to participate in any event based upon your “What If” scenarios is absurd. We had formulated a plan of action to avoid the basic “What If” factors, but realize no plan can anticipate every element. Keep in mind that we love this sport too. We are not a “Johnny Come Lately” group seeking a “Hit and Run” business approach to fencing. In 2004, we initiated the “Official Awards Area” at National Events. We purchased a professional Awards Stand for use by the USFA. This was not a contractual requirement, but done so out of a sense of pride in seeing the athletes received their awards. We at Proprintwear have performed countless services to the USFA that received little to no fanfare. We have and shall continue to do so, developed products specifically geared towards fencers and the needs of the sport.

[DHCJr]

The notion that Proprintwear would deny an athlete the ability to participate in any event based upon your “What If” scenarios is absurd. We had formulated a plan of action to avoid the basic “What If” factors, but realize no plan can anticipate every element. Keep in mind that we love this sport too. We are not a “Johnny Come Lately” group seeking a “Hit and Run” business approach to fencing. In 2004, we initiated the “Official Awards Area” at National Events. We purchased a professional Awards Stand for use by the USFA. This was not a contractual requirement, but done so out of a sense of pride in seeing the athletes received their awards. We at Proprintwear have performed countless services to the USFA that received little to no fanfare. We have and shall continue to do so, developed products specifically geared towards fencers and the needs of the sport.

This is not a "What if". This happened!

The Team Armorer had 2 choices. One was to send the whole Cadet Team home or two to purchase swatches with the National Colors from one of the Vendors at the Worlds.

The rules would have not allowed any of the Cadet Fencers to fence and probably 6 Jr.'s in the inividual competition. (T.45.4)

I think they made the correct choice! They did not contact you to get patches for the Jr. Team and send the Cadet Team home.

They bought from the vendors there.

You may think they did wrong, but I for one will always put the fencers firsts, before the vendors, the USFA, the referees and even the Armorers.

Fencing is for fencers!

[Old Fencer]

I guess you failed to read the first line of my third paragraph above which

reads… The notion that Proprintwear would deny an athlete the ability

to participate in any event based upon your “What If” scenarios is absurd.

So I will say it again… The notion that Proprintwear would deny an

athlete the ability to participate in any event based upon your “What If”

scenarios is absurd. I did not suggest in any manner or fashion

that Proprintwear was to come before these athletes.

[DHCJr]

I guess you failed to read the first line of my third paragraph above which

reads… The notion that Proprintwear would deny an athlete the ability

to participate in any event based upon your “What If” scenarios is absurd.

So I will say it again… The notion that Proprintwear would deny an

athlete the ability to participate in any event based upon your “What If”

scenarios is absurd. I did not suggest in any manner or fashion

that Proprintwear was to come before these athletes.

Your whole premise before this post is that the no one else besides you can produce the National Colors and that the fencers are required by the Exclusivity agreement to buy only from you.

If I have been wrong, I am sorry.

So, I was mistaken and you are saying that the fencer could buy the National Colors from someone else.

[Old Fencer]

No Apology required as I believe in healthy discussions and I look forward to future exchanges. We share a love of this sport and have volunteered countless hours for the betterment of our fencers. That is why I started commenting this forum to dissolve any misunderstandings. Under the circumstances you described we would never stop an athlete from competing in a competition based a financial gain.