Olympic Plan

[jBirch]

I occassionally have to tell people how hard it is to make it to the top levels of fencing.

Currently, I use the following schedule to indicate what to expect from those athletes who want to get there. I thought I'd share this here so that there is a reference point for others to use.

Practice Days
4-5 Days per week

30 minute run
30 minute weight room
30 minutes stretching/yoga

30 minutes private lesson
30 minutes footwork drills
30 minutes blade drills
30 minutes - 1 hr tactical lesson (bouting, games, video, theory, etc...)

Competition Practice Days
(ie// local/regional competitions - non primary event)
1-2 Per Month - Provincial/State range (ie// within the state or adjacent states)
30 minute warmup
5-10 poule bouts
4-8 DE bouts

International Practice
1 Per Month - Continental range (ie// North America, South America)
5-20 poule bouts
8-20 DE bouts
2-5 Events

Competition Days
(ie// regional/national/international - primary event)
1 Per Quarter - Continental range (ie// North America, South America)
30 minute warmup
5-20 poule bouts
4-10 DE bouts

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff, but that's about what it takes. You need the diet, science and medicine to support this kind of a regimen so you're looking at about 4000-5000 calories per day and appropriate intensity/exercises. Plus you need the money to support that much training, equipment and travel. I don't have a good figure on that, but it's ~ 10K-20K per year I figure...in addition to regular living expenses.

I didn't include losing weight or any other serious dietary changes because, frankly, if you're doing this much work for as long as it takes to get really good, you'll simply be unable to eat enough.

Anybody want to add anything else to the list? Or modify what I've posted?

James.

[MdA]

Bring money....lotsa money....about $40K per year to make the Olympics. The point is if you don't have the money, or can't get it along the way with sponsorships or federation support...you are wasting your time and effort.

Unless you are fencing for the challenge, fun and self-improvement...then why not fence at the highest level you can attain.

[Jason]

I have trained with a lot of Olympians, including Olympic and World medalists, in multiple countries. None of them have a training program that looks like this.

Besides the fact that this overlooks the need for individualization in training, the numbers themselves are random. (Only 30 min - 1 hour bouting a day? Laughable. A 30 min run every day?? Very uncommon. 2 local events a month plus one international event a month? Never happens.) There is also no consideration of periodization of training.

This may be a nice way to impress that training at the top level is very intense and, for many, unthinkable, but it is not a true model (or, for that matter, an actual plan).

(The economics are, of course, disgustingly daunting--particularly in the US.)

[jBirch]

I have trained with a lot of Olympians, including Olympic and World medalists, in multiple countries. None of them have a training program that looks like this.

Besides the fact that this overlooks the need for individualization in training, the numbers themselves are random. (Only 30 min - 1 hour bouting a day? Laughable. A 30 min run every day?? Very uncommon. 2 local events a month plus one international event a month? Never happens.) There is also no consideration of periodization of training.

This may be a nice way to impress that training at the top level is very intense and, for many, unthinkable, but it is not a true model (or, for that matter, an actual plan).

(The economics are, of course, disgustingly daunting--particularly in the US.)

Ok. So show me a true model. Obviously, the training is tailored to the individual and the specific training environment, but give me a general plan that I can use to impress the amount of dedication required to get to that level. How much time per day is spent training? How is it broken down?

And I find it odd that a 30 minute run each day is so uncommon. Why so?

James.

[Allen Evans]

And I find it odd that a 30 minute run each day is so uncommon. Why so?

Running is good for over all cardiac fitness, but the National training plans I've seen for fencing don't involve a lot of running. Running is not sport-specific training, for the most part, since it utilises the wrong muscles in a non-fencing way (closed skill training rather than open skill).

Allen

[MdA]

Ok. So show me a true model. Obviously, the training is tailored to the individual and the specific training environment, but give me a general plan that I can use to impress the amount of dedication required to get to that level. How much time per day is spent training? How is it broken down?

This will take some effort. I am not an Olympic coach, so I don't have a plan. I suppose I could ask ...one of them... but, I am not sure they would post it on f.net. These are the types of things that top coaches usually get paid for....

...I see this as related to your thread Amateur Coaches
This is probably the "most viewed" thread in this forum so it must be a popular topic....but a plan like you are asking for is part of the $40K estimated in my earlier post in this thread....put it under professional coaching services.

My point is that this in not the type of info that will just be posted on f.net. One of the problems is that a lot of the top coaches don't write things down.

[tbryan]

This may be a nice way to impress that training at the top level is very intense and, for many, unthinkable, but it is not a true model (or, for that matter, an actual plan).

(The economics are, of course, disgustingly daunting--particularly in the US.)

I have no personal experience with fencers of this caliber. If I needed to impress someone with the amount of time and money required to make the Olympic team, I'd probably point to this interview with Becca Ward.

She gives a sketch of what her day is like, and I think that it gives a decent idea of the amount of time and effort that someone at that level spends conditioning and fencing. She also mentions the figure of $30,000 - $40,000 per year.

If you need something to impress your students with the amount of time, effort, and money involved, what better way than to show them the words of an actual World champion and Olympic medalist?

[MdA]

...If you need something to impress your students with the amount of time, effort, and money involved, what better way than to show them the words of an actual World champion and Olympic medalist?

Excellent Suggestion.

[jBirch]

Thanks a ton tbryan...

The excerpts for everyone else:

SCHERMAONLINE:
What is your training program and when can you relax or recover? Do you ever have the time to rest with a senior fencing season that goes from January to September and a junior season that runs from September to April?

WARD:
Relax and recover? Not so much. I normally have about 2 weeks off in July. Any more and I get in trouble with the coaches. My training program: I fence 5 days a week in the evenings, about 2.5-3 hours. I used to come in 3-4 days a week in the morning for a lesson but for the past three months this has dropped to less than one a week. On average in a year I put 2-3 lessons a week. I do cross-training 3-4 days a week at a facility called Velocity Sports where we work on conditioning, speed and quickness. We normally have the weekends off if we're not competing. We also have a number of training camps throughout the year, 5-7 days or more each, where we drill and bout all day long.

It’s a constant battle to maintain an appropriate balance between training and rest. I like to go to competitions a little early to acclimate, and take a day or two off after competing to let my body recover. Our club tends to want us to leave for the meet at the last minute, and return the next morning. We've come back from long overseas trips and been back practicing the very next day. It’s very strenuous on us physically. It was the worst when I was doing a fairly full slate of Cadet, Junior, and Senior events. That’s a lot of travel. I've aged out of Cadet now, and don't go to as many Junior, but with the Olympics looming, there are plenty of Senior events we'll be attending.

SCHERMAONLINE:
What is your typical day of training to fence at this level? How many hours, how often, with whom, and how does your routine change during the season? How many technical experts, aside from your fencing coach, follow you in your preparation and who are they? Where does the training take place?

WARD:
A typical day: in the morning, I drive 20 minutes (without traffic, 45 with traffic) to the club, warm up for about 15 minutes, then take a 30-40 minute lesson from my coach, Ed Korfanty, or sometimes the assistant coach, Jacek Huchwajda. From there, I'll go to my Spanish language tutor for an hour or two, go to my physics tutor for another hour, try to stop long enough for lunch somewhere with a friend, then head off to Matt James, my cross-training instructor at Velocity Sports for an hour an a half or more of physical conditioning. This is done at their facility about 30 minutes drive from the fencing club. By now, it’s mid-afternoon. I make a snack, and get in some study time on my online classes. By 5:30, I'm back on the road for regular fencing practice, and get home about 8 p.m. I eat dinner, and spend the next few hours studying. Then I get up and do it all over again.

About the only routine changes: if it’s a while until the next major competition, I may get only 1-2 lessons a week. If it’s closer, it can be 4-5 lessons. As we approach a major event, I sometimes will do fewer conditioning classes, often taking a break a few days out to let my legs and knees rest. We also have multi-day fencing training camps: two in the summer, one right after Christmas, and several during the year when we're staying overseas between major competitions.

Woot! I don't seem to be off by a terribly large amount. *grin*

James.

[rudd]

This is a link to Guyart's weekly training schedule. If someone would care to translate.

[oiuyt]

This is a link to Guyart's weekly training schedule. If someone would care to translate.

Roughly:

You guessed it, it is my daily training!

I was training at INSEP, with the other foilists on the French team, 3 to 4 hours per day, divided into 1 or 2 sessions.

My typical week breaks down like this:

• 2 to 3 sessions of bouting, this corresponds to a series of matches against other foilists.

• 1 to 2 lessons with my fencing master (Stephane Marcelin), this is a technical practice of lines and gestures.

Both types of training match the specifics of my sport.

In addition:

• 1 to 2 sessions of weight training and core strengthening of the upper and lower body.

• 1 session circuit training / ppg / pliometrics to maintain the qualities of speed and explosiveness that fencing requires.

• 1 session of jogging or bike to maintain good stamina.

My everyday life is naturally also marked by competitions.
From January to June, I participate in World Cup tournaments in foil. These are located throughout the world, Europe, Asia, Africa, North America and South America.
My fencing season is punctuated each year by the European Championships and the World Championships and by the Olympics every four years.

-B
(note: most of the heavy lifting in the translation done by Google's automated tool and then edited to correct little bits here and there)

[epeelion]

Anyone else notice that schermaonline is down? The message you see roughly translates to: "people are bitter, apparently like to start all sorts of political crap online since they aren't held accountable for it, and I'm sick of dealing with it", albeit written somewhat more eloquently (and a bit melodramatically, I think).

[MdA]

Anyone else notice that schermaonline is down? The message you see roughly translates to: "people are bitter, apparently like to start all sorts of political crap online since they aren't held accountable for it, and I'm sick of dealing with it", albeit written somewhat more eloquently (and a bit melodramatically, I think).

Looks like he shut down the site. Good thing JBirch copied the excerpts when he did...I hope Craig doesn't get mad at us and shut down f.net.

[oiuyt]

Anyone else notice that schermaonline is down? The message you see roughly translates to: "people are bitter, apparently like to start all sorts of political crap online since they aren't held accountable for it, and I'm sick of dealing with it", albeit written somewhat more eloquently (and a bit melodramatically, I think).

Direct translation via Google Translation (apologies for not cleaning it up more than converting a few articles that hadn't translated well due to apostrophes):

Schermaonline closes.
A nothing is served, in fact, the forum to stop a few days ago.
A nothing served my references to certain standards of good education and some simple rules that are simple and mine, but they are the only ones that can allow a civil coexistence in this place, without having to accoltellare behind the time.
I was tired of everything.
Are exacerbated by external obsessive certain hysterical women, obviously frustrated and disturbed.
I have broken election of the FIS, the 'AIMS', it most and who has put it most.
They are tired of political candidates, the votes of delegations, large and small electorate, of promises kept and promises betrayed, rigging of real or imagined, of people who do not speak anything, or people who speaks and says nothing.
Not the more I read the provocation of certain people who - by any evidence - no other pastime in life, if not to afflict the next and brooding bitterness and resentment in their hearts.
I have the nausea of, pseudonyms, anonymous mythomaniac, grafomani.
I suck, now, sites, forums, chats, webmasters, moderators, posts, the instant messenger.
I have the epididymides break the continuing threats of complaints, complaints, displayed, and so forth.
I am tired and disappointed, in short, a good part of representatives of the people of fencing, known and less known.
I close, at least for now, and not do it because I have got some complaint, or because it requires me someone.
I close because I do not own the longer stand by and watch all this shocking spectacle.
I close because not tolerate more offenses, the arrogance, the alleyway, the cowardice, the irriconoscenza, the menefreghismo, the ignorance, the opportunism of many of you.
Too many of you.
Dear users and readers schermaonline, Be then something else to do, at least for a while', and fatevene one reason: the site closed for an indefinite period because not deserve a opportunity of this sort, and because its sole owner decided to take a vacation.
Get all, therefore, an examination of conscience: Some of you, alas, I just can not do is spit in the face.
The adventure was too long, under these conditions.
I need to relax and detoxify.
Greetings to all.
Antonio Fiore, alias 'schermaonline'.

[epeelion]

That's actually a pretty good translation, hehe. Here's mine:

Schermaonline is shutting down.
Closing the forum a few days ago was all for nothing.
Also ignored/for naught were my appeals to decency and respect for some simple norms of ettiquette, and to some simple rules that, while they were mine, were the only ones that could consent to a civil coexistence in this virtual space, without having to stab each other in the back constantly.
I'm sick of everything.
I am exasperated by the obsessions of certain hysterical women, who are frustrated and apparently disturbed (edit: I'm guessing he means mentally disturbed here).
(this sentence is kind of weird) I have killed myself working over the FIS elections, the AIMS, the AMIS, and whoever has any (energy) left please do continue and contribute.
I am sick of politics, of candidates, of voting, of delegations, of large and small electorates, of promises kept and promises broken, of any dishonesty or conspiracies, real or just assumed, of people who never talk, or of people who talk but say nothing.
I can't take it anymore. I can't read the provocations of certain people who-by all evidence-have nothing better to do in their lives except to hurt the person next to them and to harbor resentment and grudges in their hearts.
I'm sick to my stomach of pseudo-names, anonymous people, and compulsive liars.
I am disgusted, by now, with websites, forums, chats, webmasters, moderators, posters and instant messengers.
All these constant threats of lawsuits, expose's, atc. are breaking my balls. (yes, he said that)
I am tired and disappointed, in a large part of the fencing community, both the famous and the less well-known.
I'm shutting down, at least for now, and I'm not doing it because of any threats, or because anyone is making me.
I'm shutting down because I can't stand to watch this circus anymore.
I'm shutting down because I will no longer tolerate the offenses, the arrogance, the disrespect, the "I don't give a damn" attitude, the ignorance, and the opportunism that many of you are displaying.
That too many of you are displaying.
...

The rest basically says "find something better to do with your time, I need a vacation".

[MdA]

Ahhhhhhh yes.....the Italians.

[epeelion]

Yeahh...seemed a bit silly and melodramatic to me, honestly, but oh well.

[Phrogger]

So what he's saying is that there is as much (or more) drama in Italian fencing as there is here in the states. Well, at least it's not just us!

[Insipiens]

maybe he should move to New Jersey

[Inquartata]

Ok. So show me a true model.

You could ask Sabreur to give you the warm-up routine that Arkady's salle uses. He sent me a summary of it once, and it struck me that it was a more rigorous training regimen by itself than most training regimens. Indeed, I could scarcely see how anyone could get through it and still have any resources left with which to do any bouting...