Screaming Fencers

[Sabresque]

I know of whom I think you guys are speaking about from california. I admit, I did used to shriek as loud as her. Vocalization *does* help me. I just get so cranked up, all this tension and emotion builds up inside myself and the yelling lets it go. Fortunatly I also figured out that at times my shrieks weren't going for me. It could make directors mad, and be biased against you, and it could also make your opponent mad at you. You have to weigh the emotions of your director and your opponent. I no longer scream every touch (well, shriek, I guess it was), and I now only let go on difficult touches or when I'm particularly proud. There's also a lower percentage of my yells that are shrieks instead of lower-pitched yells of "woooah!" or the like (my yell has been described as sounding like "ohio" ).

Okay, well, that went on for a while. Anyways, I think that yelling is *not* rude, unless specifically meant to be so (in your face, ect.). It can help people's game or lower it, it varies from person to person. It's smart to keep it in, however, when you get an annoyed, and capable of being biased director. You've just gotta be aware of the consequences.

[Inquartata]

Yes, but some of us bystanders would like to preserve our hearing for our old age...

When you see people with their fingers in their ears---take it down a few decibels, huh?

[Catlady]

There's definitely a difference between making noise/vocalizing and out and out shrieking
Oddly enough, considering how vocal I am the rest of the time--I go on just as long in person as I do in writing, if not moreso-- I have trouble making any noise on strip. It was recommended I do so to get more acceleration before the hit--not exactly sure how it works, but it does I have to make a conscious effort to make noise. Apparently it's part of play acting as well. If you scream the director is more likely to give you the touch when it otherwise might be unclear.
I'v never seen E. Dew in action, but I'm jealous of his reported ability to swear in multiple languages. I can swear quite effectively in German and know a few choice phrases in Spanish and French, but Urdu? Now that is impressive. I have now moved on to odd exclaimations when frustrated rather than outright cursing. Right now my current favorite is "oh bugger". Somewhat vulgar, but not outright obscenity. "Oh, bother" was another. "Balls/Ballocks" works nicely too. It's kind of fun to see if you can get a rise out of someone with it.

[Boo Boo]

I thought that Americans were very anti-swearing (or other rude words)? I.e. that they aren't tolerated on the strip (at least when said in English).

Whilst fencing in a US Competition (could have been against EDEW - hence the frustration ;-)), my husband got a stern warning/card from the president for saying (not yelling) sh*t.

Although it is not "encouraged" in the UK, it is not hugely uncommon for the occasional rude word to get muttered and, if so, I have never seen it penalised by the president.

Boo

[Spanky McFarland]

I have to admit to owning a mouth like a sewer while on the piste. Aside from most commonly used swearwords, screamed at great volume (always when I have made a mistake), I have taken to shouting 'Big hairy dog's c**k'. This can either generate laughter from the bystanders, or earn me a yellow card.

Most presidents don't seem to mind swearing, as long as it is not directed at them or the opponent. I should once have been black-carded at a tournament for telling the director that he was a useless f**king waste of space, and that he shouldn't have got out of bed that morning. Fortunately we are friends, so he let me away with it, although I had to apologise profusely afterward.

The point of these confessions is that I agree with the reply regarding expunging negative emotions. These outburst help me deal with the frustration I feel upon committing an error, and let me focus on the next hit. Which I then usually lose, and the cycle of profanity begins again.

[edew]

Originally posted by Boo Boo
I thought that Americans were very anti-swearing (or other rude words)? I.e. that they aren't tolerated on the strip (at least when said in English).

Whilst fencing in a US Competition (could have been against EDEW - hence the frustration ;-)), my husband got a stern warning/card from the president for saying (not yelling) sh*t.

Although it is not "encouraged" in the UK, it is not hugely uncommon for the occasional rude word to get muttered and, if so, I have never seen it penalised by the president.

Boo

Those muther ****ing ******* goddamned ****head stink ****s who think they can goddamn mother ****ing tell me what I can ****ting say on a piece of cock-sucking strip ought to ****ing get a life. Piece of **** miscreants. They can all take a flying **** into hell. Scum bag twerps.

How's that?

(Hey, this message is only 873 characters long!)

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Boo Boo
I thought that Americans were very anti-swearing (or other rude words)? I.e. that they aren't tolerated on the strip (at least when said in English).

Whilst fencing in a US Competition (could have been against EDEW - hence the frustration ;-)), my husband got a stern warning/card from the president for saying (not yelling) sh*t.

Although it is not "encouraged" in the UK, it is not hugely uncommon for the occasional rude word to get muttered and, if so, I have never seen it penalised by the president.

Boo

Sadly, the US refs apply the rules quite differently than anywhere else.

[Boo Boo]

I know that American's can swear quite colourfully, but haven't seen much on the piste: saying that, I haven't fenced very much at all in the US - so I don't know have a realistic cross-section of experiece in such matters :-)

The only time that I swear in or near the piste is in a reaction to severe pain (rather disturbingly my "pain reaction" swear word is the "f word" - very disturbing if there are kids or your parents around...).

Boo

[Mo]

At the 2001 Summer Nationals during a cadet woman's saber bout, one of the fencers asked the score. Upon hearing it was 14-14 she said a simple "F***". The ref looked at her, reached in his pocket and got out a red card. The bout was over and the fencer was I think, a little wiser......

At the first summer nats my kids attended my daughter then a ten year old was sitting on my lap as we watched the semi finals for 12 and Under. One of the cute little blonde and braided 12 year olds lost her bout, threw down her equipment, said "F*** F*** I suck at fencing" and burst into tears.

At that point I knew my dd had found her sport.

[Catlady]

To be honest, the worst I've come out with on strip is "oh HELL!!!" or "HELL-HELL-HELL-HELL," repeated nearly ad infinitum. Not that that's good, but I guess I shouldn't have given the impression that I'm a potty mouth. I'm not, although I'm glad that my thoughts aren't audible because they get a bit colorful even though I stop short of saying anything out loud most of the time. BTW both incidents were in practice. I know I'd get in several kinds of trouble if I tried it in a comp. I threw one good tantrum on strip a while ago,--after the bout--and I get told, throw all the tantrums you want, but get off strip and outside first. Since then I do a lot of screaming, and get many funny looks, in the parking lot.

Some one did mention to me that you only get in trouble for swearing in English though. A Spanish fencer supposedly said "Puta Madre" loudly in a bout that was witnessed by a clubmate and didn't get in trouble. I don't speak (much) Spanish, but I don't think that was a compliment.

[JEC]

I can assure you that it isn't

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

Unless they've just gotten the winning point in some major tourney, screaming fencers are absolutely obnoxious. Especially when they've been touched. I just fenced some sore loser biznitch today. She had been fencing sabre for years, I, for a couple weeks. Every time she was touched, she would bang her sabre on the ground and groan. She managed to win, 11-15, but she was pretty pissed. Had she been in a tournament, she would have been black-carded the moment her sabre touched the ground.

I probably just repeated someone else's story, but I'm not reading the whole topic just to make sure.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Corvus Rex
The answer is never. Not to be mean, but screamers are usually young or inexperienced fencers. Once one gets some time and proficiency under their belt, they will fence with their sabre and skill, not with their mouth. If you fence cleanly with clear actions, a decent director will call the appropriate action, screaming usually means you are trying to get your slop called over your opponents slop...

Ever watch a tape of the olympics? I remember that during the Atlanta olympics, the commentators did an informal medal round for loudest screams.... women's foil was Silver.

Screaming is basically neither here nor there. Is it necessary to scream to win? of course not. is it rude to scream? depends on how it is done. but for the most part, no.

btw, yes, I do scream.

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Bebop and Rocksteady
Had she been in a tournament, she would have been black-carded the moment her sabre touched the ground.

What tourneys are YOU going to??? black carding for once striking the ground? that is incredibly tight rulings.....

-m

[Bebop and Rocksteady]

Originally posted by epeemike81
What tourneys are YOU going to??? black carding for once striking the ground? that is incredibly tight rulings.....

-m

According to this handy Schedule Of Offenses and Penalties, "Offense against sportsmanship" qualifies a black card, so it isn't even limited to hitting the ground through frusteration.

[Peach]

I once (when having a particularly bad day) was carded for striking the strip repeatedly. It was a yellow card, and then a red card. I've been told the main reason for making people stop whacking the strip is that those copper strips are expensive, not because hitting things other than your opponent is unsportsmanlike.

Being a jerk in practice, on the other hand, is irritating but not cardable, and results in people avoiding you when you want to bout. Being a jerk on the strip isn't cardable either, most of the time.

[achilleus]

Originally posted by Bebop and Rocksteady
According to this handy Schedule Of Offenses and Penalties, "Offense against sportsmanship" qualifies a black card, so it isn't even limited to hitting the ground through frusteration.

'Offense against sportsmanship', like almost all fencing rules, is open to interpretation. At world cups, US NAC's, and even regional competitions I've never seen or even heard of a fencer being penalized for whacking the ground. With the exception of a copper strip ,as Peach had mentioned and as she pointed out, it was to protect the expensive strip, not an 'offense against sportsmanship'.

But doing all that in practice is a little over the top. OK, not just a little. A lot.

[nahouw]

Many referees when seeing people hit the strip in their frustration won't give the extreme black card for unsportmanslike conduct, but rather, opt for the yellow card for the weapon on the strip, out of the niceness of not interpreting such actions, and giving a friendly warning to adjust your behavior.

I saw the strips that colleges bought after the Junior World Championships held at South Bend. I was amazed that after these strips being purchased new for the Junior Worlds had as many damages that we had to fix due to these violations.

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by Peach
I once (when having a particularly bad day) was carded for striking the strip repeatedly. It was a yellow card, and then a red card. I've been told the main reason for making people stop whacking the strip is that those copper strips are expensive, not because hitting things other than your opponent is unsportsmanlike.

Being a jerk in practice, on the other hand, is irritating but not cardable, and results in people avoiding you when you want to bout. Being a jerk on the strip isn't cardable either, most of the time.

note that Peach says she was carded for hitting the strip REPEATEDLY. I would not argue that you CAN'T give a black card for striking the strip. of course you can! directors discretion. the director can black card for ANYTHING s/he deems unsportsman like. I am just pointing out that I have never seen anybody black carded for hitting a strip once (or repeatedly), though I have seen many people strike the strip in that manner.

-m

[achilleus]

Originally posted by nahouw
Many referees when seeing people hit the strip in their frustration won't give the extreme black card for unsportmanslike conduct, but rather, opt for the yellow card for the weapon on the strip, out of the niceness of not interpreting such actions, and giving a friendly warning to adjust your behavior.

I think that is your interpretation of the ref's behaviour. I've never heard a ref say they look at it that way.

In my years of fencing at local, regional, national and international competition, I've only seen a card given to one person for hitting the strip.

At a local event, it was mentioned before the tournament that the gym being used was new, and to please refrain from hitting the floor so that the management of the facility would allow the fencers to stay. One fencer, in frustration, drove the point of his weapon, as hard as he could, into the ground.