Sabre Lesson Plans

[thekoby]

Alright, I first did a search on here for previous posts about this topic and got a lot of good feedback, but really didn't find the answer to a question I have in my head.

One of the best posts was posed by jBirch asking about teaching a group of U13s sabre. He was asking what he should teach them beyond the basics of movement, attacks, parries, and ripostes. The list of moves he had listed was very similar to my existing lesson plan for sabre, but I'm looking at revamping it (as I did with my beginner foil lesson plan at the start of August) to fit more information and make the lessons more enjoyable. Here's what I have in the order I have laid out to teach it:

holding a sabre
en garde
movement (advance, retreate, lunge etc. - no flunge as I feel it is dangerous to new fencers)
attack 3
attack 4
attack 5
parry 3, riposte
parry 4, riposte
parry 5, riposte
take over riposte/attack
feints
compound attacks
attack in prep
point in line attack

First question is jBirch mentioned attack w/false edge to arm. What does this exactly mean? Is it a remise of the first attack with the back-cut?

Second question is if there is anything else I should include in this beginner sabre class (of college students) or anything I should remove?

[knave]

Couple of things to consider when designing any class, fencing or otherwise:

Who will be taking your class?
What is your primary goal for your students in the class?
How long do you have to teach (per class and number of classes)?

For example, I just started teaching a beginning fencing course that uses saber to introduce people to fencing. I assume that the students will have no prior fencing knowledge. The class meets once a week for an hour over eight weeks. My goal was to get the students to the point of fencing a bout and that they leave the class with a positive impression of fencing. As a secondary goal I wanted them to be able to move into a level II saber course offered at the club.

In my class I covered:
Holding a saber
On guard
Advance
Retreat
Lunge
Advance lunge
Head cut
Chest cut
Flank cut
Head parry
Flank parry
Chest parry
Simultaneous actions
Basic rules of fencing
A mention of foil and epee

A fairly limited amount of technique and all things considered, probably a little too much. I'm looking to pair it down a bit.

One thing I've found for short classes, if you set up games that contain useful fencing actions, you can avoid having to deliver a lot of explanation and keep people engaged and having fun. I used two basic drills in the class: the glove game with advance lunge and a simple exchange parry-riposte drill. Those drills with a few modifications allowed me to provide a bit of tactical structure for most of the technique I was covering without too much explanation.

I have been fairly pleased with the results in the first class, but will be tweaking it the next time I teach it. Hope that is useful to you.

[darius]

How long is the class? Are the fencers total n00bs, or do they have some experience?

The basic order I teach (not broken down by class, just in an order, allocate time as you see fit):
- Holding a sabre / en garde / footwork.
- Head cut, basic ROW. Given these tools, you now can do a whole bunch of footwork-driven games that will enforce the tempo demands of sabre.
- Positions (3,4,5) & getting between them
- Cuts (Flank, Chest, Arm). You're now at a place where they should be able to cut to the most distinct targets and parry those shots. Again, plenty of games can ensue here, as well as basic controlled bouting.
- Compound attacks (they'll usually have figured the basic idea out by now anyway)
- Counterattacks (continuations fall under here, given their non-priority status)
- Advanced topics: ROW, line, skyhook, simultaneous tactics, 2nd intention, absence-of-blade, prise-de-fer.

With compound attacks, we don't talk about beats much; I find that people concentrate on the blade as a crutch to help steal right-of-way, and would rather they learn to go using their feet, and make beats only when they want to. It also helps them in a situation where a referee can't parse blade contact.

Attack with false-edge to the arm is just what it sounds like -- you're making an attack to the arm, and it doesn't matter if you're using the cutting edge. I didn't see jBirch's original comment, but the techniques can be used in a variety of places.

[Jason]

Rather than focusing on a list of actions to teach, consider what concepts, skills, and abilities are necessary. Think about what the most fundamental elements of sabre fencing are. What is most important? That's where you should start. Build logically from there.

Be sure that there is a logical progression to lesson development (e.g. simple things should be taught before complex things).

(By the way, your "no flunge as I feel it is dangerous to new fencers" comment is meritless.)

[telkanuru]

However, "No flunge because new fencers don't know how to use it properly"...

[thekoby]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

However, "No flunge because new fencers don't know how to use it properly"...

this was the implied statement on that. I believe it to be too dangerous for new fencers as they won't know how to properly execute it but with the actions and the distance.

Thanks for the advice everybody. After talking to my old sabre coach I took out point-in-line for favor of short discussion on beats. He suggested that if I focus on beats and parries, then when the new sabre students encounter PIL in a tournament, they won't be surprised by it.

The class is being offered to new sabre fencers who have been through a beginner foil class. The class will run about 5 weeks, maybe less with the amount of material and that we will be meeting 3 nights a week.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

However, "No flunge because new fencers don't know how to use it properly"...

Yes, let's not teach them how to do something because they don't yet know how to do it.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Jason

Yes, let's not teach them how to do something because they don't yet know how to do it.

Does "won't use it properly" work better for you

[Jason]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Does "won't use it properly" work better for you

Absolutely not.
While there may be many reasons not to teach something (in this example, flunge) to a student, "won't use it properly" is a weak one and reflects entirely on the coach's ability.

Since thekoby is just starting out as a coach, a completely acceptable reason not to teach flunge might be "I don't know how to teach it well." Another valid reason may involve time constraints. Another could have to do with what the coach chooses to prioritize based on the way he's organizing the course (this is, naturally, connected to time constraints). I personally might not teach it in the time frame he's describing because it's simply not that important. (In fact, I might not teach a good deal of what's already been suggested for exactly that reason.)

However, as he says the students will be training three times a week for five weeks, there is certainly enough time to give the students an introduction to flunge, if a coach wanted to, without any worries about it being "dangerous" or the students being incapable of using it.

[jBirch]

Holy Crap! Something I wrote almost 6 years ago still has application today? Talk about the test of time.

I'm awesome.

*grin*

The "false edge cut to arm" is an upward cut delivered with the back edge of the blade (the "false edge") to the weapon forearm of the opponent. I prefer to teach sabre with an "active defense" and use this little "swipe the arm" as a good counter-attack while running madly away from the attacker. I prefer that to waiting for the attack and then executing a parry-riposte or triggering an early finish.

In the syllabus, I also wanted to introduce the students to the concept that not all attacks need to be delivered with the cutting edge. Whipovers, flats, false edge attacks, etc... are all valid techniques that we build on in later lessons.

As to the progression, I always go back to the classic way:

Level 1 - 1 or 2 semesters
Footwork:
En Garde. Steps Forward/Backward. Lunge. Step-Lunge. Appel.

Offensive Bladework:
Head Cut, Flank Cut, Belly Cut, Cheek Cut

Defensive Bladework:
Parry 5, Parry 4, Parry 3
Riposte

Tactical/Bouting:
Hooking up
Testing Bells/Salute
Basic Fencing Rules
5 Point Bouting

Theoretical:
Distance Colours (Black = Infighting, Red=Extension, Orange=Extension to Hand, Lunge to Chest/Head, Yellow=Lunge to hand, Green=Out of distance)
Priority Scale (PIL, Attack, Parry/Riposte, Counter-Attack, Continuation)

Level 2 - 1 Year

Footwork:
Flunge, Ballestra, Ballestra-Lunge

Offensive Bladework:
Feint-Attack Compound Attack (5-3, 4-3, 3-5)
Beat, Press, Froissement, Bind

Defensive Bladework:
Stop cut
PIL

Theoretical:
Tactical Wheel (The Tactical Hyperbush comes later...)

Bouting/Tactical:
Zones on the Piste
Fencing Tendencies (Attackers vs Defenders)
15 Point Bout

Level 3 - Forever and ever and ever...

Competition theory/management and general refinement of technique...

Hope this helps.

James.

[Schiavona]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Appel

Bind

James, can I ask your reasons/reasoning behind teaching these two in sabre?

Not trying to be snarky, just want to know.

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by Schiavona

James, can I ask your reasons/reasoning behind teaching these two in sabre?

Not trying to be snarky, just want to know.

Hey Schiavona,

To me, both of these actions are core to fencing and as such, have their proper place in a regular lesson progression. So I teach them in foil, epee and sabre in pretty much the same order.

Appel is a general foot action. It helps to "call the attack" when fencing defensively and/or when looking for a reaction from the opponent. Too, during drills it helps to ensure that the fencer is carrying their weight correctly.

Binds are great for teaching basic sentiment du fer, which is an important skill in all three weapons, IMHO. When I teach prise du fer actions (presse, croise, bind, envelopment,etc...), I teach all of them in one go and I teach them after compound attacks, beats and other offensive actions.

The bind is less useful in the general sabre case but can be a good action to use where appropriate. Parry, bind-riposte can be handy as can the bind response to a PiL. Don't forget that the sabre has a point in addition to the edge so actions that work best with the point have their place too.

And on that note, I forgot to include in my outline there that when I'm teaching the four basic cuts in "level 1", that I also teach thrust to chest.

I'm less fond then many others of tailoring the progression to the specific weapon being taught, so I pretty much teach the same progression in all three weapons: Attack before defense; Defense before counter-time; Counter-time before continuation. Direct before indirect; Simple before compound.

Others may disagree though.

James.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Jason

Absolutely not.
While there may be many reasons not to teach something (in this example, flunge) to a student, "won't use it properly" is a weak one and reflects entirely on the coach's ability.

And yet, when I watch high-level saber coaches give lessons they very much seem not to use the flunge until their students have reached a high level of tactical and technical sophistication.

[MdA]

Don't see a lot of binds in sabre these days...see the following

"Useless" techniques

...which I think you started.

[jBirch]

That I did.

...and as I said in the opener, "my own proclivities are to teach the "useless", obscure, skills but not to put any emphasis on them. To me, at least, more education (even "useless" education) is always a good idea.". Though I was thinking of things that are much more unorthodox then a simple bind...even in sabre.

I certainly wouldn't lump binds into the "useless" category in sabre. Would you?

James.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

And yet, when I watch high-level saber coaches give lessons they very much seem not to use the flunge until their students have reached a high level of tactical and technical sophistication.

Great reasoning.

I don't know what you are or aren't watching. However, you can teach fleche, flunge, lunge, or whatever early on without any horrible fears of people getting hurt or not using it correctly.

Of course, you might want to wait to teach fleche or flunge until after they've learned lunge, so as to emphasize the importance of lunge over fleche. As I said before, it's not so important that I'd put it early, but you certainly can teach it early.

[MdA]

Originally Posted by jBirch

....
I certainly wouldn't lump binds into the "useless" category in sabre. Would you?

James.

I am thinking....pretty much....I just don't see 'em much anymore. I will leave this one to our sabre experts.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Theoretical:
Distance Colours (Black = Infighting, Red=Extension, Orange=Extension to Hand, Lunge to Chest/Head, Yellow=Lunge to hand, Green=Out of distance)

The Tactical Color Wheel? Brilliant.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by Jason

The Tactical Color Wheel? Brilliant.

Yes. Even Page Davis will be able to start calling herself a fencing coach.

Allen