Do you watch lessons at competitions?

[MdA]

Do you watch the lessons given by other coaches at competitions? Does it bother you if other coaches watch your lessons?

What if another coach pulled up a chair and started taking notes while watching your lessons? Videotape?

[RITFencing]

I constantly watch lessons at competitions and in my own club; there's almost always something to learn (even if it's what not to do.)

If another coach started taking notes or taping, I'd probably be flattered, and I'd certainly answer any questions they had if I had time after.

I've also asked several coaches I respect to watch lessons I've given, and their feedback was very valuable.

[DangerMouse]

Ditto. If a coach can get enough information from watching one lesson (even repeatedly) to do any real damage, then my lessons are far too repetitive.

[Adler]

I try to watch lessons from as many coaches as possible and have no problems with people watching mine. I would, however, have an issue with a coach filming my lessons if the fencer i'm working with is a minor.

[swordsen]

Yes I watch others. I don't mind if they watch me. I would want them to ask before filming a lesson though. (Although I can't imagine why they would film one of my lessons......)

[jBirch]

Not just at tournaments, but I actually go to other coaches and watch at their club. I'll also see if I can take them out for food and ply their brain there.

Tournament lessons are just for show anyways. How much are you going to teach in that kind of an environment?

James.

[DangerMouse]

It's a controlled light drill lesson to relax the fencer and up their confidence with routine actions. Not a teaching lesson.

[RITFencing]

Ditto. If a coach can get enough information from watching one lesson (even repeatedly) to do any real damage, then my lessons are far too repetitive.

Yup. Furthermore, answering questions (and asking them of people who watch) can sometimes get me thinking about what I'm doing and yield more information.

[Allen Evans]

I watch a lot of lessons at competitions, though mostly (lately), I've found them disappointing in quality (even if they are mechanical, warm up lessons). I do try to seek out coaches I know and watch them teach. You will often find coaches at Summer Nationals giving teaching lessons at events if their fencers are there over the course of ten days. Those I pay particular attention to.

I don't care if people watch my lessons, but I do feel that if you're going to video tape a lesson, you should ask first.

Allen Evans

[Tomas N]

I definitely watch lessons. I love watching good lessons. I spent a lot of my free time at the NAC watching them because I don't have a regular coach of my own. The distinction between teaching vs. confidence-building vs. performance (that is, the coach is performing) lessons is an interesting one and explains much of the variation in the types of lessons I saw.

Tomas

[catwood1]

I try to watch as many lessons as I possibly can at events. I was surprised this weekend, at how many ridiculous lessons I saw. PM if you want to know the funniest one I saw this weekend.

[MdA]

I definitely watch lessons. I love watching good lessons. I spent a lot of my free time at the NAC watching them because I don't have a regular coach of my own. The distinction between teaching vs. confidence-building vs. performance (that is, the coach is performing) lessons is an interesting one and explains much of the variation in the types of lessons I saw.

Tomas

It is important that you noticed the different types of lessons. Here are some of the major categories

• Types of lessons
o Assessment
o Teaching / Technical / Cognitive
o Training / Fixing / Perfecting
o Bouting / Competitive
o Strategic
o Corrective / Remedial
o Warm-up

[MdA]

I try to watch as many lessons as I possibly can at events. I was surprised this weekend, at how many ridiculous lessons I saw. PM if you want to know the funniest one I saw this weekend.

There are plenty of examples of bad lessons as Allen points out. I recommend you concentrate on the good ones.

At one time, I avoided giving lessons at competitions...especially epee lessons...since my primary weapon is foil. After going to Coaches College, and about a year of practice I was comfortable with my epee lessons.

Nothing fancy...just the standard warm-up lesson that we did at practice. It made my fencers feel more comfortable and gave me a chance to assess their readiness.

[jBirch]

Ditto. If a coach can get enough information from watching one lesson (even repeatedly) to do any real damage, then my lessons are far too repetitive.

This has been bugging me for a bit...

The concept that a coach has a "super secret" technique that they only show in the dank recesses of their club is asinine, IMHO. Coaching is about a lot more then knowledge. First and foremost on that list is your relationship with your students and the specifics of your interaction with them.

If you're afraid to share your knowledge, can you really consider yourself a competent coach?

James.

[MdA]

The legend of a Master's "Secret Thrust" ....the one which is unstoppable has been around for centuries.

I don't adhere to this concept...there really isn't such a thing... but some of our colleagues won't show you anything unless you pay$$$$

[thekoby]

I've watched lessons before, and recenly it's been to get more knowledge on how to be a better instructor. As far as having other coaches watch me give a lesson at a tournament, I would be flattered but also embarassed, especially being a new coach I'd feel like they would disaprove of my teaching style.

I agree with others that it is respectful to ask if you can videotape before doing so. I certainly would not pull over a chair and start taking notes without asking first, just out of professionalism.

[telkanuru]

If you're afraid to share your knowledge, can you really consider yourself a competent coach?

As an opponent rather than a coach, I can infer quite a bit about how a fencer will act (and think) if I've seen them take a real lesson (not a warmup you usually see at tournaments).

I see it as much more of a mental advantage than a physical one.

[Allen Evans]

As an opponent rather than a coach, I can infer quite a bit about how a fencer will act (and think) if I've seen them take a real lesson (not a warmup you usually see at tournaments).

I see it as much more of a mental advantage than a physical one.

At the same time, with a high level fencer, this can be a good way for the coach to show off some things in an environment designed to intimidate opponents. I remember a NAC in which I watched an FC coach give one of his fencers a lesson with multiple flicks, followed by a strong take in second, all done at very high speed. To say the lesson was intimidating is an understatement.

In the last few years, I've become picky about the lessons I watch. I do watch a lot of bad or average lessons, however, because I'm doing a lot more coaching training these days (at my own club and in other clubs in the area) and I'm looking at common mistakes (grabbing the blade after the hit, clicking the blade as a release, and so forth). There are plenty of good examples!

AE

[darius]

In the last few years, I've become picky about the lessons I watch. I do watch a lot of bad or average lessons, however, because I'm doing a lot more coaching training these days (at my own club and in other clubs in the area) and I'm looking at common mistakes (grabbing the blade after the hit, clicking the blade as a release, and so forth). There are plenty of good examples!

Heh, some of these mistakes are made by folks who've produced Olympic medalists!

darius

[Allen Evans]

It's true. I've seen some very good coaches give very vibrant and hard releases (for instance, Tysler -- as someone once said -- smacks the student's blade after a hit as if he's personally offended by it). But this weekend I saw a couple of coaches who should know better grabbing the blade with their bare hand after the student had hit, and doing this on every action. I've seen high level coaches give the blade release (I am teaching myself not to do it) but they aren't maniacs about it.

It would be safe to say that some of the other mistakes at saw this weekend in lessons were more egregious.

AE