10-07-2008, 04:26 PM
|
#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Georgia
Posts: 360
| Wikipedia Stupidity
I was looking up "fleche" on wikipedia and I found this
"The flèche is not allowed in some types of tournaments altogether, especially at the high school level of fencing. New York state fencers sometimes cannot use the flèche when competing in other states such as Connecticut."
Maybe I am ignorant about northern states since I live in the south, but this just sounds too ridiculous. Someone please tell me this is just a joke. | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
| |
10-07-2008, 04:27 PM
|
#2 | | Scavenger
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,658
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BySword  I was looking up "fleche" on wikipedia and I found this
"The flèche is not allowed in some types of tournaments altogether, especially at the high school level of fencing. New York state fencers sometimes cannot use the flèche when competing in other states such as Connecticut."
Maybe I am ignorant about northern states since I live in the south, but this just sounds too ridiculous. Someone please tell me this is just a joke. | Isn't the fleche forbidden in New Jersey high school fencing?
__________________
I never made a mistake in grammar but one in my life and as soon as I done it I seen it. -- Carl Sandburg | |
| | |
10-07-2008, 04:29 PM
|
#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Georgia
Posts: 360
| wait... so it's real?
but why? the only thing I can think of is to protect the newcomers from being ran over... or minimizing the risk of blood spilling... | |
| | |
10-07-2008, 04:32 PM
|
#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,993
| I believbe it is correct...it's allowed in California scholastics, tho. I think it's a control and reduction of injury risk issue in NJ. | 
| | |
10-07-2008, 05:12 PM
|
#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: George Mason Univesity and NJ
Posts: 475
| I fenced 3 years of High School fencing in NJ. The fleche is not allowed in any weapon.
I nearly fell out of my chair during class when I read your post about how stupid wikipedia is.
edit---
On a serious note, I believe it is done for safety reasons. Also, knowing how close quarters most NJ HS tournaments are, fleching could become a problem running into other people's strip.
You really, really, don't want a 200 pound 18 year old who has been fencing for a month fleching* at you.
*Fleching in this case equals a hand out, head down, all out charge foreword that will not stop...
__________________
"Sir, didn't I parry"
"You didn't take advantage of his blade enough, so no."
(I guess i should have romanced it a bit more..."
Last edited by catwood1; 10-07-2008 at 05:15 PM.
| |
| | |
10-07-2008, 05:16 PM
|
#6 | | The Judge
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,324
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BySword wait... so it's real?
but why? the only thing I can think of is to protect the newcomers from being ran over... or minimizing the risk of blood spilling... | yes, its real. you probably shouldn't assume that something is wrong unless you know for a fact it is. in fact, i'm surprised that its allowed in the georgia high school league. the issue is primarily safety-related, where i'm sure people ended up getting hurt from a fleche somehow and the compromise was to ban the move. | |
| | |
10-07-2008, 05:17 PM
|
#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,878
| No more than I'd want him tackling me, but I'm guessing you're allowed to hit your opponents in football...
It's a dumb rule. | |
| | |
10-07-2008, 05:30 PM
|
#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Carolina über Alles
Posts: 2,608
| I had a guy who fenced in high school join the club I was at back in TN. Needless to say he was a little surprised the first time he saw a fleche. While they aren't by any means the most important part of the game, completely taking them out seems pretty detrimental to dealing with them when fencing in any tournament/match/what have you that could potentially matter.
__________________
RebelFencer's Awesome Quote of the Week:
"Encouraging the average age of first intercourse to go below 16?"
-Army Fencer
| |
| | |
10-07-2008, 05:39 PM
|
#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Pacoima, ca USA
Posts: 5,993
| Quote:
Originally Posted by catwood1
On a serious note, I believe it is done for safety reasons. Also, knowing how close quarters most NJ HS tournaments are, fleching could become a problem running into other people's strip.
| That may be why it's not a problem in SoCal....we always leave adequate spacing between strips. Quote: |
*Fleching in this case equals a hand out, head down, all out charge foreword that will not stop...
| You forgot that it has to start with the flecher 30 feet away when he gets going....it's more like a bad joust... | |
| | |
10-07-2008, 06:02 PM
|
#10 | | Fence As Much As Possible
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Alleyways
Posts: 200
|  Damn, never heard of that.
Makes me want to do them even more now. 
__________________
Yea, I'm still a noob. Big WOOP. Wanna fight about it?  | |
| | |
10-07-2008, 07:55 PM
|
#11 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| At the pre-season meeting for NJ HS coaches last year it was explicitly stated that the reason for the ban was that banning the fleche promotes better footwork (rather than safety considerations, which is the rationale I'd always previously heard).
Now this may sound rediculous, but let's think about it. We pretty much all stipulate that sabre fencers have the best footwork, right? And who isn't allowed to fleche? Perhaps the organizers are on to something?
Okay, okay, maybe we should just remove the word "to" from that final sentence.
I strongly disagree with the rule. And, having worked with fencers in college who had previously only experienced fencing in the NJ HS setting, it can significantly negatively impact development of a complete game that involves fleching in other settings.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
| |
| | |
10-07-2008, 09:48 PM
|
#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Carolina über Alles
Posts: 2,608
| Oh god, there is too much agreement in this thread! I demand a counterargument!
__________________
RebelFencer's Awesome Quote of the Week:
"Encouraging the average age of first intercourse to go below 16?"
-Army Fencer
| |
| | |
10-07-2008, 09:54 PM
|
#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 878
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelFencer Oh god, there is too much agreement in this thread! I demand a counterargument! | It's too hard to count how many steps are taken in a high-schooler's fleche.
If they're fencing on a counter-top they might fall off if they fleche.
A fleche is easily defeated by a counter-6. | |
| | |
10-08-2008, 12:31 AM
|
#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Live in Maine...Fence in New Hampshire
Posts: 1,289
| Holy crap. You mean that they allow a 300 lb lineman to tackle a 130 lb running back in NJ, but you cannot fleche? Sorry. That's frickin' retarded. Let's wrap all our kids in bubblewrap. That will prepare them for the world. | |
| | |
10-08-2008, 12:47 AM
|
#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,474
| For the record, you CAN fleche in Connecticut. Someone mixed up CT and NJ or was making it up.
I fixed the article using my powers. | |
| | |
10-08-2008, 08:32 AM
|
#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 634
| Fleching wasn't allowed in NYC high school fencing either. Hell, we weren't even allowed to fence the other two weapons.
__________________
Out Of The Ashes | |
| | |
10-08-2008, 10:29 AM
|
#17 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| Of course, the idea the Wikipedia should direct its global attention to the particular details of high school fencing leagues is a arguable in its own right. | |
| | |
10-08-2008, 11:57 AM
|
#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: RPI (Troy, NY)
Posts: 926
| When I reffed NJ High School, the way the no-flecheing rule was explained to me it basically ruled out any cross-advance as well (unless the were well out of distance).
__________________
Sword-Chucks Yo!
The ref ALWAYS has right of way.
| |
| | |
10-08-2008, 12:14 PM
|
#19 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,951
| Quote:
Originally Posted by larkmaj When I reffed NJ High School, the way the no-flecheing rule was explained to me it basically ruled out any cross-advance as well (unless the were well out of distance). | The rule, as used by NJSIAA, is: Quote: |
Originally Posted by NJSIAA NO fleching is permitted. A flech is defined as "the crossing of the plane of the front heel by any portion of the rear foot in an offensive situation". | Note that this defines as illegal some actions that are legal in (non-NJ HS) sabre.
You know, just to add a bit of extra bonus confusion to the mix.
-B
__________________
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
| |
| | |
10-08-2008, 01:29 PM
|
#20 | | Just Joined
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Statesboro
Posts: 11
| So is fleching considered sloppy footwork (in foil)? I was taught it primarily as a way of covering distance since my lunge is less than exciting. This is also why I like to employ the crossover lunge (obviously not all the time, just to catch opponents off-guard when I suddenly go much farther than usual  ). Please keep in mind that I am a baby newbie fencer.  | |
| | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | |
