What's a good Cardio+Resistance training plan for competitive fencers?

[sinK]

This questions probably been probed sometimes before on this forum, so sorry if I'm asking the wrong question here.

I'm a fencer from NYC and I recently got access to a gym very close to my house. So aside from fencing and taking lessons and doing footwork, I'm wondering what sort of resistance and cardio training I should also be doing that I could be doing at the gym. (specifically resistance aka weights, and how should I be doing my cardio to get results)

Because for the last two weeks I've simply been running thirty minutes at 6mph on the treadmills everyday and then doing different sets of muscles for weights without really having a solid routine. Also, I do core work everyday without really feeling sore the next day no matter how I push, is there something wrong with that? I don't have access to a knowledgable trainer (the trainers in the gym are simply bodybuilders that want money and bring in customers for themselves). I do have a friend who acts as a spotter and encourager (heh).

Googling doesn't seem to get me adequate information to make a plan for what I need since most the sites I see are for bodybuilding, and not necessarily training. However, I'm also a pretty small built guy so I feel I could use any sort of training right now and I'll still get results. But I still want to do things right.

It probably doesn't make sense for anyone to help me make a schedule without being my trainer or knowing me personally, but a general idea would help.

To get a better sense of my time, right now my schedule is

Monday: Gym- resistance and cardio 2 hours.
Tuesday: Fencing lesson- 1 hr.
Footwork, Drills + Bouting- 2hrs-3hrs.
Wednesday: Gym- resistance and cardio 2 hours
Thursday: Fencing lesson- 1 hr.
Bouting- 2hrs.
Friday: Fencing lesson- 1 hr.
Bouting- 1hr-2hrs.
Saturday: Fencing- 1hr.
Gym- resistance and cardio 1-2 hours.
Sunday: Gym- resistance and cardio- up to 3hrs.

Any advice would be nice.

[epeelion]

There have been a lot of threads on this topic already.

That said, here we go...

First of all, slow cardio for long periods of time is not particularly useful. Maybe for a good base fitness level, but not overall. You get you body into "slow twitch" mode and build the wrong musculature. There are marathon runners who would be exhausted after a few fencing bouts.

Do sprints. As in, jog for 1:00, sprint for 30 seconds, or different variations on that interval. Or Biking in the same way.

Here's what I do (this is excluding footwork, which should be a regular part of your routine as well)

Monday-Plyometrics. Upper and lower body. Builds explosiveness and fast twitch muscle.

Tuesday-I have a varsity weight room at my school, and we combine some weights with a lot of band resistance exercises. Do pull-ups, push ups, maybe some squats and/or Olympic-style lifts (clean& jerk, etc.)

Wednesday-rest, maybe some agility stuff if you have an agility ladder or similar

Thursday-Varsity weight room again, same idea. Maybe stability ball leg curls, reverse pulldowns, step ups with weight, band squats, maybe some curls/presses also (I know not all gyms have the same kinds of equipment, especially the bands). Make sure you use a LOT of medicine ball exercises, both in plyos and regular workouts.

Friday-do a sprint workout

Saturday-rest

Sunday-fencing based conditioning-what a lot of people do in fencing classes during the week (butt kicks, high knees, grapevines, etc.).

I also play squash or badminton every day, as those are the best sports for cross-training. Don't focus so much on cardio. Really. If you want to increase your endurance in a productive way, look into Tabata style workouts (they're a kind of circuit training). It's a phenomenal workout, can be done anywhere, and requires very little equipment. I might do this on Sundays, for instance, or on a day when you don't want to do a lot of weightlifting.

All that said, try to find a trainer somewhere to consult with (I know you said there are none, but just try to get at least a one-time consultation somewhere). I doubt many, if any of the people on the board are strength professionals, least of all me. Make sure to have a spotter when you lift weights, be aware of when you feel joint pain and such, and go for three or four sets of 8-12 of whatever exercise you're doing.

I have the same problem as you with abs sometimes. Make sure you change the exercises you do constantly. Your abs are a very resistant muscle group, and they adapt quickly if you don't switch exercises frequently. Same with calves.

And again-lots of footwork.

[Cookeit]

I prefer an elliptical as opposed to running/sprinting.

It won't destroy your knees and better allows you to target your butt and quads.

[epeelion]

Sure, that works too, as well as biking. The point is that you need short, intense bursts, not a long slow pace. You can do that on any cardio machine.

Just as a side note, I'm not positive it's been proven that running destroys your knees. It depends largely on the surface you run on.

[rudd]

This is an example of how Brice Guyard trains. Do as much fencing and fencing related training as you can. With the time you have left over do some strength, conditioning etc. Injury prevention and addressing the imbalances of your sport should be your primary goal.

[Cookeit]

Originally Posted by epeelion

Just as a side note, I'm not positive it's been proven that running destroys your knees. It depends largely on the surface you run on.

Well,
I ran cross country in high school (now a freshman in college) and I just about despise running now.

[teamusaepee]

Originally Posted by sinK

This questions probably been probed sometimes before on this forum, so sorry if I'm asking the wrong question here.

I'm a fencer from NYC and I recently got access to a gym very close to my house. So aside from fencing and taking lessons and doing footwork, I'm wondering what sort of resistance and cardio training I should also be doing that I could be doing at the gym. (specifically resistance aka weights, and how should I be doing my cardio to get results)

Ok, yes this has been answered before. So #1, do search up those threads.

The bulk of your training is fencing-related. That is good. As for the rest, you'll probably get as many answers as how many people you ask, but my $0.02 is you should find a CrossFit affiliate in NYC. Here's a two I found on the CF main page:
www.crossfitnyc.org
www.crossfitsouthbrooklyn.com

Tell them your goals - they will be able to teach you the clean, squat, deadlift, etc. which will develop your explosive hip extension (your lunge) as well as your core stabilization. You'll also be getting in sprints, plyometrics (box jumps, rope jumping), and upper body stuff (pull-ups, push-ups, etc.) that often gets neglected or unbalanced in fencing. You'll get much more out of an hour of this 2-3 times a week than your current 2-3 hour setup, IMHO. When you do footwork you will have the strength and power gains to translate into faster, more powerful footwork.

Don't let the workouts posted on the front page of the web sites turn you off. Everything is scaled to your current level (learning the lifts with PVC first, for example) and the trainers should know how to do that.

Whatever you end up choosing to do, consider coming back at the end of the season to share your experience.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by epeelion

Sure, that works too, as well as biking. The point is that you need short, intense bursts, not a long slow pace. You can do that on any cardio machine.

Just as a side note, I'm not positive it's been proven that running destroys your knees. It depends largely on the surface you run on.

I suspect genetics also factors in.

[epeelion]

Oh, absolutely. But I trust people in general to know their own particular weaknesses, hehe. I.e.-if you have weak knees, don't run on concrete (don't in general, actually).

But yes, crossfit is also a good choice, I second that.

[Cerian]

As far as resistance training goes I would essentially base things around squats, deadlift, and whatever olympic lifts you're able to execute. Also nice to throw in bench and standing military press just to round things out and not do everything lower body. Around that just find exercises that supplement your needs. Jumprope, plyo stuff, lunges, some forearm exercises (wrist rolls are good), maybe some stuff that works the range of motion on your shoulders, or some body weight arm exercises like push ups, dips, pull ups; maybe more leg exercises if you feel you need to bulk up there (front squat, leg press...). Mix up your core workouts a lot, maybe try to do stuff on a bosu ball also. If there are any around a good core strengthening class can be a good way of getting ideas on how to change up your core routine. Do a lot of stretching and use a foam roller at the end of your workouts. If you can do any agility training do that; it's great.

When doing lifts, make sure you get someone to show you good form, and then make sure you do the lifts for power and accelerate in the eccentric motion. Keep your self to something like 4 sets of 5 reps for starting out, but change up the patterns every few months (5-4-3-2-1s, or fewer reps/higher weight). Ultimately, if you stick with a core of full body exercises like squat and deadlift, you'll develop all around, and everything else is just sort of supplemental, so as long as you're consistent with your exercises and focus on what seems helpful it should be good.

[sinK]

Okay, this info has been great help. I have a better idea of what I should do now. My schedule's kind of weird lately because of some outside events, but once I get a new fixed schedule, I'll post that up and tell how that worked out. And again at the end of the season as teamusaepee suggested. Thanks guys.

[Cry_Me_A_River]

Originally Posted by Cookeit

I prefer an elliptical as opposed to running/sprinting.

It won't destroy your knees and better allows you to target your butt and quads.

Do sprinting instead. Using the elliptical will confide your ROM(Range of Motion). What you need to do is get fitted for a proper pair of running shoes.

As for your butt and quads, preform squats.
You'll thank yourself when your standing naked in front of the mirror, "Look at that butt!" :slaps butt:
"Look at the at nice tight butt!"

[piste off]

Originally Posted by Cry_Me_A_River

As for your butt and quads, preform squats.
You'll thank yourself when your standing naked in front of the mirror, "Look at that butt!" :slaps butt:
"Look at the at nice tight butt!"

Does that exercise increase your upperbody flexibility so that you can turn your head around like an owl?

R-

[Cry_Me_A_River]

Originally Posted by piste off

Does that exercise increase your upperbody flexibility so that you can turn your head around like an owl?

R-