Coaching Paradigm...

[MdA]

Here's an interesting tangent to the discussion: What do you think is best taught in group instruction and what do you think is best taught in private lessons?

.... but anything that is heavily based on the relationship between the two fencers (most tactical drills that I do) or involves a more general sense of strategy (learning to push and pull the opponent, disrupting the opponent's attack, etc) are done just as well if not better in a group environment. While it is possible for a coach to mimic different types of opponents or become more adversarial in lessons to increase the realism, they can at best mimic different people who are really trying to hit the student. In a group class, different people trying to hit the student are right there.

I agree with the statement above by RITfencing about tactical drills.

In my experience, fencers need to be taught to do drills correctly...and get something out of them. This is a little easier to do in a high school or college...or national team environment...where the fencers are motivated to improve the overall team result...and help their teamates.

In private clubs...fencers often goof off during drills. They are not motivated to help their partner improve and so they often execute poorly or actively work against the objective of the drill. It is possible to make it work but the coach really has to push to get something out of group work....see my previous post about more work for the coach.

In a private lesson, the coach will work to help the student...and hopefully will actively help the fencer execute correctly. I think this is another reason private lessons are more common in American clubs...more money for the coach...as previously mentioned also plays a big part. Paying customere feel they are getting more for their money in a private lesson...even though they may get just as much or more in group or pair work...done correctly.

Fencers who are taught to drill...can work anywhere with anyone in most clubs...and usually transition better to new coaches...(which may be another reason why many coaches don't do it). In a national team environment or a national fencing factory like the Chinese, Russian, or the Beck system at Tauber...a fencer is expected to transition to other coaches.

[RITFencing]

Another interesting tangent (and a valuable one too):

How do we produce fencers who are good at drilling? I completely agree with MdA that learning to drill well is a skill that can be developed and will pay dividends.

I could even break it down into two areas: being a good driller, and being a good drill partner. Some drills have obvious benefits for each fencer, some have obvious benefits for one fencer and less obvious benefits for another, and some are simply one sided. For a more one sided or subtle drill to work, the fencers involved have to be good at being on the "student" end but also the "coach" one.

[MdA]

....How do we produce fencers who are good at drilling? I completely agree with MdA that learning to drill well is a skill that can be developed and will pay dividends.
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Put good fencers on a team where all the bills are paid…an elite select team…like a national team or top college team. Make it clear that their continued membership on the team depends on them participating well in all team training activities…which includes drilling with partners.

This can also be done at a private club. If the coach makes it clear to all fencers that drills are an important part of the development system at the club. Make it clear that if they don’t participate in drills they can’t participate in other training activities. This includes selling the fencer on the idea that drills will help them improve. It is done successfully in our club. But the coach needs to be the “Enforcer”.

But the club loses some members…the ones that opt for the private lessons (no drills or conditioning) and bouting system at other local clubs. Many fencers and parents take their dollars elsewhere and select a program that they like…not necessarily one that may be most effective.

[MdA]

... For a more one sided or subtle drill to work, the fencers involved have to be good at being on the "student" end but also the "coach" one.

...another important point by RIT. At our club we have found that our good "drillers" transition well into being group leaders and eventually assistant coaches. This helps the headcoach....and the fencers. One of our top teen-aged fencers passed her USFCA Moniteur exam last year.

[Allen Evans]

But the club loses some members…the ones that opt for the private lessons (no drills or conditioning) and bouting system at other local clubs. Many fencers and parents take their dollars elsewhere and select a program that they like…not necessarily one that may be most effective.

Coaches have to respond to market forces. I was once the recipient of a long rant from a parent who was going to drop their current coach because her child did not get lessons directly from the head coach (a very capable assistant coach was working with her child instead) and becuase her child was often asked to practice with other students -- none of whom were as good as her child (naturally).

If a club can afford to turn away people at the start, and set up effective programs from day one, the students will not know anything else. But this is often hard to do when a small club is starting out, and the coach needs to build a reputation and provide the services that members expect. The coach has to create drills that are engaging and build skills. There is a dearth of information on that for most of us.

Changing an extablished club to a drill focused training method from a coach focused training method usually takes a lot of cajoling, or fencers who have seen it be successful at other clubs buying into the program and convincing the others.

But some fencers just don't drill, or they don't drill well. They are paying to fence, and thats what they want to do. A large number of fencers in the US are really recreational fencers (and this includes "A" and "B" level fencers), even if they don't see themselves that way. For them, fencing is the part they have "bought into" and drilling often seems like a waste of time, or "not fun".

Allen Evans

[RITFencing]

Changing an extablished club to a drill focused training method from a coach focused training method usually takes a lot of cajoling, or fencers who have seen it be successful at other clubs buying into the program and convincing the others.

This is something I am going through at my current club, to varying degrees of success. It took some time at first, but once the students got to know me, realized I wasn't an evil ogre from the frowny face kingdom and that I wasn't going to go away, and most importantly that they could still have fun AND learn to fence better, resistance started to melt away. Not that it has done so completely, but I'm confident that the rest of them will come around given time, especially when the ones working hard at it win more medals...