I'm a fencer, I'm a parent of a fencer

[zenpharaohs]

My seven year old son has just started fencing. He is taking lessons from a well qualified master.

I also fence, I have coached in the past; I don't intend to do any fencing teaching with my son.

Are there any pitfalls I should watch out for?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Don't expect too much, especially when he's this little.

Let him decide how much time to spend fencing. Let him decide when he's ready to compete.

Let him tell you when he wants you there, and when he's not. And get ready for the fact that even when you follow requests to the letter, sometimes you will be blamed anyway.

[pinkelephant]

Don't expect too much, especially when he's this little.

Let him decide how much time to spend fencing. Let him decide when he's ready to compete.

Let him tell you when he wants you there, and when he's not. And get ready for the fact that even when you follow requests to the letter, sometimes you will be blamed anyway.

Not sometimes - always.

However much you know about fencing, to him you will always know nothing, for the simple reason that you are his parent and therefore somewhere below pond life in the biological hierarchy. On the other hand, when he's at College and needs new kit...

[whiteandbluefencer]

My suggestion would be to let him make out of fencing what he wants it to be. Fencing will probably have a different role in his life than it had in yours. With anything you might introduce your son to, his feelings about it are going to be unique to him. He needs to be able to own it, make it his. It will certainly be something you both will share, but he needs always feel that he's doing because he wants, not because it is what is expected of him.

He might be more hard-core than you were, or he might only do it for fun and never compete... whatever he does, you have to be proud of him. You will have to except and respect his decision, and be sure he knows that you love him no matter what.

[MdA]

My seven year old son has just started fencing. He is taking lessons from a well qualified master.

I also fence, I have coached in the past; I don't intend to do any fencing teaching with my son.

Are there any pitfalls I should watch out for?

Yes...there are pitfalls...you might be falling into one right now. Why don't you intend to teach your son? Do you think you are not qualified...or is there something else?

I have three sons who are fencers. I taught them all. It can be a wonderfully rewarding experience to share.

I suggest you check out some of the threads in the Coaching Corner...like this one...Coaches competing against their students?

I don't want to tell you how to parent...I just want to represent another point of view. You can make this work.

Your son doesn't need a Fencing Master at seven. He needs a pin cushion with a lot of patience. If you can do that...you can make fencing a fun activity. We did short lessons on the backyard patio on Saturday afternoons...and then went to baseball.

I was not a FM when I started coaching my kids...but I am now. Your son can learn to fence, and you can learn to coach...you can help develop other fencers for him to practice with..

If you are not interested in coaching, then you can turn him over to a FM after a few years...you can't do much damage as long as you make it fun.

[oiuyt]

And meanwhile you can be a pirate.

-B

[MdA]

And meanwhile you can be a pirate.

-B

Aye matey! AAArrrrrgghhgh.

[griffindm]

I have three sons who are fencers. I taught them all. It can be a wonderfully rewarding experience to share.

I don't want to tell you how to parent...I just want to represent another point of view. You can make this work.

Well, I've been coaching for 30+ years, but had little luck teaching either of my sons. They were less than enthusiastic about learning it from their father.

Children are not fungible. Some have issues with learning something from parents that they would be happy to learn from someone else.

Dave G.

[MdA]

....
Children are not fungible. Some have issues with learning something from parents that they would be happy to learn from someone else.

Dave G.

This is certainly true with other things in our house. I guess I was lucky with fencing. It is worth giving it a try.

If your kid becomes a fencer, ....you are going to be there....for several years...you might as well try to participate if you know something about fencing.

I see the parents at competitions who are not fencers....some saying too much...others trying not to say anything at all. It is best to try to be useful...and if you are a coach...try to coach....if it is not working....you will find out soon enough.

[MdA]

Well, I've been coaching for 30+ years, but had little luck teaching either of my sons. They were less than enthusiastic about learning it from their father.
..........
Dave G.

Let's get back to the OP's question. Did you get another coach to teach your sons? What are the pitfalls of having another coach teach your kids?

[griffindm]

The oldest of the two took a liking to epee, but doesn't take it seriously, as his major love is karate, where he earned his black belt in a little over a year. He picked up the odd pointer from me in fencing, but usually relies on his speed rather than technique.

The younger son took a group foil class from one of the other coaches at my club. He enjoyed it while he did it, but did not stay with it.

The biggest pitfall, I believe, is expecting your children to be as taken with the sport as you are.

[zenpharaohs]

Yes...there are pitfalls...you might be falling into one right now. Why don't you intend to teach your son? Do you think you are not qualified...or is there something else?

Well if there were nobody else around, I might consider it. As it happens, he is taught by Lasha Sopromadze, who is a professional master, recent national champion (Georgia, epee) and currently rated A2007, as well as Michelle Verhaven, who has been the U.S. women's foil champion several times.

I also got some advice from another high level fencer I know that teaching your kids can be particularly tricky and he didn't recommend it.

[zenpharaohs]

The oldest of the two took a liking to epee, but doesn't take it seriously, as his major love is karate

Yeah my son has been doing karate for almost two years. The dojo (which happens to be the local dojo) is independently run by some very qualified people (the founder is a former national champion) who have students at all levels, including one top ranked professional. My son really likes karate.

He really likes fencing too. The karate has actually helped his fencing a lot because he is ready to pay attention and do as directed in the fencing class based on the relatively tight discipline of the karate dojo. I think he is enjoying the social aspects of fencing as much as the fencing.

I have no idea what he will stick with; if any sport. We got into this fencing because my brother and his son got interested in the new salle that opened up near us. They knew about fencing because I was a fencer, which gave them the idea to try it out. So part of the reason my son likes fencing is that we get to go to the salle where his cousin is taking fencing. My brother has also started, and he really likes it; he has been steered into epee.

[MdA]

.....
I also got some advice from another high level fencer I know that teaching your kids can be particularly tricky and he didn't recommend it.

Teaching your kids to like the same things you like can be very tricky. One of the things that helped me was that I was teaching older fencers when my sons started fencing.

I was coaching a college team at the time and my kids saw these college fencers practicing very seriously and they thought it was cool.

Later I had my own private club...but most of my time was taken up with the older fencers....I guess they just grew up thinking fencing was the coolest thing and very important to Dad. I guess I was lucky....they also thought I knew everything about fencing....now they are not so sure.

It worked....and we had fun.

[zenpharaohs]

they also thought I knew everything about fencing....now they are not so sure.

I got past that one pretty quickly. I have fenced with the master at the salle, and I am holding my own in sabre, but the first week, I got my clock royally cleaned in foil and epee. This past week I got to 10-15 in epee (I've almost broken my arm off patting myself on the back for that one) but my son cheerfully kept score and informed me that "Lasha beat you dad" at the end of the bout.

[griffindm]

.... as well as Michelle Verhaven, who has been the U.S. women's foil champion several times.

Not familiar with Michelle, and I don't see her listed as a foil champion at the Museum of American Fencing. Can you clarify?

[MdA]

You really have to read this post by Allen Evans.

Why are you fencing the other coach...in all three weapons? If this coach is trying to sell you lessons for your kid...he appears to be doing a good job.

My kids always saw me teaching classes or giving lessons more than they saw me fencing...I guess this drove home the point that I was the teacher and not the fencer.

I fenced occasionally at the club...sometimes I won but I also lost to some of the better, younger fencers...it didn't seem to matter because I was the coach.

I don't know if you can get yourself into that position at your current club...since it appears you have several coaches. Why don't you ask the head coach at your club how you could help teach your son. They may not encourage fathers teaching their kids at your current club.

Maybe you can do Saturday afternoon lessons at home where you are the "pin cushion"...just for fun...and he can continue lessons at the club with Lasha.

As I said before, at seven he doesn't need a master, he needs someone to spend a lot of time with him going over boring repititions of basic fencing actions...and some how making it seem fun. How many lessons is he getting from Lasha? You could probably do more...explain to him that your lessons are just practice to get him ready for his real lessons.

[MdA]

.... I got my clock royally cleaned in foil and epee. ..... but my son cheerfully kept score and informed me that "Lasha beat you dad" at the end of the bout.

This might not be possible in you situation, since you have already established yourself at your current club. But, for former fencers and coaches who want to coach your kids...it might be better to volunteer coach at a smaller club when your kids are really young.

Then move to a "top shelf" club after you have established yourself as a helper/teacher. I agree with other coaches that they don't need a lot of competition at seven...you can get these at Y10 RYC a couple times a year ...or add more slowly when they are ready.

[MdA]

Here is another idea for former fencer parents who want to help their kids fence but might not want to coach....or might not be able to coach their own kids.

Lasha may be a fencing expert...but he may not be an expert about the USFA and American Youth fencing.

Volunteer for the youth development committee, RYC coordinator for your region, study the Athletes Handbook, and the RYC/SYC Youth schedules...know the point standings and qaulifying paths for all events...scout the competition...videotape...break down video and help analyze...fix his equipment...then you can teach him to do all this stuff for himself...which puts you in the role of teacher and fencing manager....fun manager. Do all this stuff in the background...don't put too much pressure on him.

There is a lot to do to make youth fencing enjoyable for you son, and I doubt that most hired coaches will do it all.

[zenpharaohs]

Not familiar with Michelle, and I don't see her listed as a foil champion at the Museum of American Fencing. Can you clarify?

Michelle Verhave is our foil coach. She is one of the most prominent fencers in the United States. Michelle is a six time national champion, five time international medalist, and an alternate to 2 Olympic Teams. Currently, she is ranked #1 in the United States in women's veteran fencing. Michelle is now a founder and owner of the Putnam County Fencing Center, where she hopes to bring her love of the sport to recreational and competitive fencers alike.

Now the thing I have come across sometimes is that people who have won the national team championship sometimes are called national champions (in fact there is the sort of famous case of the three epee fencers from the Philadelphia Athletic Club who were U.S. national champions in this way - and rightly so since they won more bouts than the one sabreur who convinced them to be a team so he could compete...).

However, we do fine this from the link of one of her coaches in the U. S. Fencing Hall of Fame:

Pinkhasov, Semyon

Semyon Pinkhasov

A few days after arriving in NYC from Moscow, Semyon (now Simon) was walking around the city and decided to see Grand Central Station. He saw a woman with a fencing bag and decided to approach her. She was on her way to the Fencers’ Club. He went with her and the rest is history. Simon Pinkhasov became the Coach of New York Fencers Club from 1977-1997.

During those years he was selected as Coach of 1983 & 1987 Pan American Teams, 1984 Olympic Team, and the 1981 & 1985 Maccabiah Team. His NY Fencers’ Club foil stars won 10 US National Men’s Foil Team Championships, 6 US National Women’s Foil Team Championships, and he individually coached the following greats: Michael McCahey, Peter Lewison, Sharon Monplaisir, Mike McCahey, John Nonna, Jeff Bukantz, Jack Tichacek, Michelle Verhave, William Mindel, Lisa Piazza, Wilma Friedman, Eric Rosenberg, Neal Cohen, Nestor Rosario, Philippe Bennett, Nathaniel Cohen, Jerome Demarque, John Troiano, Lew Siegel, Ayo Griffin

So it looks like it could be those Championship Women's Foil Teams she may have been on.

As to the current Veteran rankings, she appears to be #1 in women's foil 40-49, and #2 in what is called "combined"..

There's also people who have won various age limited or collegiate championships who I would consider entitled to call themselves national champions, but in this case I think it's the team championships.